DD fainting/twitching. Docs unconcerned

[WetRainbowRoses]

Just hoping for some wider opinions, hopefully some people working in medicine will see and comment as I’m very upset and worried for my little girl.

DD is 7, very fit and healthy and currently at hospital after fainting for no apparent reason for a second time.

The first time she was having her hair brushed getting ready for school and suddenly lost consciousness.
It took a few minutes for her to regain consciousness.
The temperature in the room was not hot, she always drinks water in bed and had eaten breakfast and drink water so not overheating or dehydration or low blood sugar.
The hospital could not have been less concerned.
Did NO tests whatsoever. Not even a blood test.
Just did general checks like listening to her heat and checking her reflexes.

Today, she was walking with her brother about to help me get some clothes from downstairs when she suddenly fell into the floor with no warning.
While unconscious her arm was twitching/jerking and a little later the arm jerking had stopped but her torso was now twitching.
I was trying to talk to her and she made some groan type noises but wasn’t looking or responding to me at all.
When she came round (after a minute or two) she realised she was on the floor and got upset it had happened again.
Like last time, the temperature wasn’t hot, she’d eaten, she’d drank, she hadn’t got up suddenly either.

I’m absolutely worried sick and terrified the hospital are going to be unconcerned again and send her home without tests.

I have seen online that apparently sometimes children can twitch while fainting but it seems to suggest this happens just before the faint, but she was definitely unconscious while it was happening.

They say about feeling faint beforehand but she has no recollection of either faint.
Didn’t feel anything before, was completely normal then just suddenly lost consciousness.

Does anyone know what tests she should be having?
If DH comes home later with nothing being done I’m taking her private but don’t know what to ask them for?

An MRI?
And ECG?

I’m so worried about her

Sounds like a seizure. It definitely needs following up on. She needs to be seen by a neurologist.

I’ve just had a text off DH to say they have put numbing cream on in preparation for a blood test so they are thank god taking it more seriously this time.

I think it sounds like a seizure too.
I’m so worried for her

DS fainted once when he was 9 and was most certainly overheated a bystander thought they saw his leg twitching (we weren't with him) the hospital took it very seriously asking all sorts of questions and doing an ECG I hope you get some answers this time.

She could just have naturally low blood pressure.

It's so worrying being a parent

This happened to my dd and they said it was due to the hair brushing and sent us home. It happened a second time after she she got a brush stuck in her hair. Again fobbed off. Im also worried as one of my brothers has epilepsy. Hope you get a better response this time.

Another text off DH.
They’ve done an ECG but not told him the result, she is still waiting to have the main blood test done though they have done a finger prick blood test.
DH doesn’t know the result of that either yet.

Big change in response this time round from the first incident.

@MrsBerthaRochester
I’m so sorry to hear this and hope your DD is okay.
Hopefully it was something benign never to happen again 🤞🏻

This happened to my stepson 14, just before Xmas. It absolutely sounds like a seizure. The groaning (or snoring noise) is common with epilepsy. My stepson has had loads of tests and after the second seizure they gave him medication which has been increased after each seizure. He has had 5 so far. It's truly terrifying when it happens but luckily he doesn't remember the seizure. The first one was in the kitchen and when he collapsed he hit his head off the oven door and shattered the glass. Horrific to witness the paramedics were amazing. I hope your daughter is ok, you should be referred to Neurologist and the Epilepsy team xx

It does sound like a seizure but not all seizures are caused by epilepsy.

It will be best to wait and see what they say, it's great they have done an ECG and you should push for an MRI if they don't do one - they should though.

Everyone has one seizure in their life time and it's very common that investigations aren't run after the first - it is usually after the second that things get put in place for things to be investigated.

The doctor suspects epilepsy

She’s been moved to the paediatrics ward for more tests.

Yeah definitely a seizure, not fainting.

Thank god the doctors are actually paying attention this time around. I would still go privately to a specialist after the testing is done, if you can.

Sounds like some sort of seizure. She needs to be referred for an EEG. If possible, then I would suggest filming and further episodes on your phone so you can show the Doctors exactly what happened - easier said than done in the stress of the moment, I know.
They rarely take any action after just one episode as it can happen to anyone once. It is also difficult to confuse the shaking that can happen after a faint with seizure activity - DS once fainted at school and 'shook' afterwards so I was called to take him to the GP who said it was more than likely what is known as vasovagal syncope rather than a seizure.
That said, now it has happened twice it is time for further investigation. I hope you get some answers soon.

Oh OP - such a lot for you to think about all at once, but she is in the right place and they seem to be investigating very thoroughly. All the best - sending virtual and to sustain you all through the tests and the waiting.

Big change in response this time round

That's because it's not a one off any more.

They will need to do quite a few tests to rule out any treatable causes of seizures - epilepsy is only one cause. There is no value in taking her to be seen privately if she is already seeing paediatric neurologists and having brain scans and EEGs and so forth. There is no queue to jump here! I agree with others that the difference now is that it’s not an isolated incident that sounded like a simple faint (which does happen) because this is now the second time and you saw signs of seizure activity. It doesn’t mean they were overly relaxed first time, just that there was nothing at the time to suggest an MRI or EEG was needed.

Hope she is feeling a lot better and that they get to the bottom of whatever is causing it and/or sort out treatment ASAP whether it’s epilepsy or something else.

@Porcupineintherough

Big change in response this time round

That's because it's not a one off any more.

And probably because Dad's with her, so can't be palmed off with an 'oh, you're just an overprotective mother, have you been seen by your GP for stress/anxiety?'

Hi, just to add don't panic too much. My son had a seizure out of the blue on holiday and has grown out of his epilepsy now. Even going on medication was not the end of the world. It was terrifying the first time it happened though

They will always take a second more seriously than the first. Because a one off single episode is well within normal. And could just be a reaction to being slightly ill or just a random thing.

But when it’s repeated then it’s by definition no longer a one off, so they do need to do more checks. It wasn’t negligent of the hospital not to do so much the first time but it’s also not a reason to panic this time, it’s just standard procedure.

I hope they can get to the bottom of things fairly quickly. In the meantime, if it happens again, try to video it - it’s really helpful for the medics to be able to see exactly what was going on. And record how long it lasts too - it’ll feel like forever however long it is but accurate timings are really helpful.

Hope you and DD are ok OP x

Obviously it does need some investigation to diagnose, but I would just like to add that although it could have been a seizure, some people do twitch and jerk when they faint, even while unconscious - I’m one of them and so is my dad. Neither of us have epilepsy. So while seizures are a possibility it could be something less worrying. Fingers crossed for you and your DD and hope you get some answers soon.

Maybe vagaries nerve response.

*vagal