What to do about future of care in the UK?

[Flawedperfection]

I just wrote a v long post which I lost due to phone battery fading!

In a nutshell, what do we do when there are no longer any carers or anyone willing/able to care for our elderly and those in need of support?

I currently work for a care provider in a finance/admin role and it’s scary how: understaffed we and many other care providers in the area are; few people want to actually work in care and ;few younger people want to do it, and will only do so if threatened by sanctions etc.

In my company, most carers are aged between mid-40s and late 50s.

I previously worked in care on and off for much of my working life partly because (not going to lie) I couldn’t find anything else and was over or under qualified for other career paths. I know it’s crap in many ways: the pay, the hours and working conditions and the personal care is not for the squeamish (this was my issue!), but how do you get people to want to work in care?

Seriously, what do we do when the numbers fail to tally: many people in need, too few carers? Do people go off to hospitals long stay? But we also have a nursing recruitment crisis…

And before anyone suggests that I rejoin the carer ranks, as said I’ve done it before (for years), and it wasn’t for me. That’s kind of my point- no one really wants to do it!

@Akire, I totally agree with you. And it’s embarrassing to see how some carers resent being there, whilst others are incredible.

@PomBearWithoutHerOFRS, you’re not wrong. It’s heartbreaking.

Now, what do we do when we’ve run out these selfless people willing to do just this? We don’t look after our own parents at home in this country (no judgement; I won’t be volunteering to do this myself!), so where does the decent care come from?

@Cherryade8

First most people in bigger cities don't use benefits not to work.

Secondly I don't want anyone going into care job. It's takes someone with a certain amount on personal skills to do care jobs. It's not just about being caring but thinking on their feet, a whole lot of patience and none judgement views. We are talking about people having adult incontinence pads changes, washing people etc not just basic care of shopping etc.

Thirdly it's is a job that needs better pay and conditions so people that have these skills feel it can be a career path rather than a dead end job.

We could do a whole lot more that force people into these jobs in areas where benefit claiments are high. And not always in higher areas of population where they need more carers.

@JessieLongleg you're right, caring should be done well and with kindness. If carers are overstretched then surely requiring people who are claiming unemployment benefits to assist them in some way would be useful though? I have a relative who refuses to do any cleaning/caring/vaguely unpleasant work yet has claimed benefits for 15 years now. What a waste.

@Hospedia, that was an excellent post.

Make it a requirement of claiming unemployment benefits that if roles like care are available then then you can't claim dole? I often see care roles advertised with flexible hours etc, people shouldn't be paid not to work.

Jesus wept. Really? Is this really how little you think of the role I do?
In a typical morning, I start at 7, changing a stoma bag and a fistula bag for a disabled woman, before dispensing 17 tablets for her.
45 minutes later, I'm at a very elderly man with advanced dementia, helping him to shower and have breakfast, and possibly change soiled bedding.
45 minutes after that, I take a woman shopping - a 48 year old woman with acute depression due to losing her husband and three children in an accident eight years ago.
Two hours later, I arrive at my next client, a 64 year old woman with stage 4 cancer. I help to gently wash her in bed, rub cream into her acutely ulcerated skin, and help her into fresh nightclothes. We talk - a lot, about her fears for her disabled son, and what will happen to him in the next weeks/months when she dies.
Then I'm at a double up call with another carer, this time at a 96 year old woman who requires hoisting to a commode, personal care given, and hoisted safely back to bed. She then needs fed with a soft food diet and thickened drinks, before possibly requiring hoisted to the commode again.

I do this 5 days a week from 7am until 10pm. To be a carer requires compassion, integrity, and a massive amount of commitment. All this for minimum wage.
So please don't sit there behind your keyboard and insult us by suggesting that any Tom, Dick or Harry can be forced into doing it.
Is that the standard that people really want for the most vulnerable members of our society?

[quote Cherryade8]@JessieLongleg you're right, caring should be done well and with kindness. If carers are overstretched then surely requiring people who are claiming unemployment benefits to assist them in some way would be useful though? I have a relative who refuses to do any cleaning/caring/vaguely unpleasant work yet has claimed benefits for 15 years now. What a waste.[/quote]
So how would forcing your relative to go into caring benefit those she would have to care for? Do you think having someone stood over them tutting/gagging/sighing (or whatever way the carer showed their displeasure at being there), is going to calm a dementia patient, be compassionate to someone at end of life, encourage somebody to eat? All they will do is cause more suffering and stress to people than is necessary.

We are going to have to make some hard decisions about healthcare spending, medical interventions and assisted dying, but it basically comes down to the fact that if we want people to be carers, we need to pay them more and treat them better.

In the end, that money needs to come from the people being cared from themselves - if they want a better standard of care, they are going to need to have saved up for it while they were working, to sell their houses, not expect to leave anything to children or grandchildren, etc, etc.

Rich and poor don't get equal consideration or standards of living when they are under 70 so why should that change when you are suddenly over that age?

It would be lovely if we could treat everyone equally but, let's be real, that isn't the system we live in and unless something dramatically changes then I'd suggest we all either start saving to pay for our own carers when we get old or decide on how and when we want to check out early.

@Cherryade8

I just people frustration with people like that but really not someone I come into contact with in London.

Even my friend that moves to west country said she get much les hassle of the job centre there than in London.

When next door was off as lost his teaching job of 14 years due to cuts he noticed people less qualified being pushed into lower paid jobs and he was given a bit more grace. And now has another teaching contract.

My experience of the job center once as a teenage was told I couldn't apply for jobs higher than experience anyway. And 15 years later it was agreed I would look for jobs around 25k, my last being 45k. By the next visit was being pushed to take jobs at 16k.

My mum thinks I would be great in a caring position of management but I don't like the was the people I would manage would get paid so badly and the private and quite money grabbing ownership of care home. It's shocking how much it cost to keep someone in a care home. In comparison to carers wages even more so.

As the poster said above is doing if going to place to place has a high petrol cos and you don't get paid for that time. My friend who did it as a second job was spending way to much time siting in traffic between jobs to chase low paid hours of work.

As salesperson or someone that has to travel for work through a office job get to claim travel and food and is limited so don't take more than use. Like to poster says why would somone give that up by choice. And notes a lot of carers are older. Can't help think it because they have less job opportunities as whole. Known people in 50's to take on caring jobs as struggling to find office work, not out of choice and because £70 a week job seekers plus £100 housing benefit in West London is rubish money.

I don't know how anyone can live of it for 15 years and have any kind of fun.

Yes, @MongoOnlyPawnInGameOfLife and @JessieLongleg, it looks incredibly bleak. Every couple of years or so this sort of chat comes up, but nothing is ever done.

Those pathetic adverts by the government on getting into care/Made with Care just seem so patronising. I’d love to see our MPs do all the work in care as described by pps- personal care, feeding, dressing, lifting- for £9.91 an hour and still be smiling, energetic and plenty of money for that hefty mortgage.

I’m so fed up of people I meet saying how “rewarding” care is, yet would never try it themselves. Or complaining about the care their family members receive, yet would never lift a finger to help.

I'd get rid of private care companies, consolidate all resources into one large LA run, not for profit and plough money into training and progression.

Having 5 people on one street pay 5 different companies for 10 different carers is madness. More mileage, inconsistent costs, inconsistent care. That one street could belong to one care team and absolve all travel costs and travel time that carers don't even get paid for. Madness.

There will always be people going into care work I am sure of that.

@Sportslady44

There will always be people going into care work I am sure of that.

Just not enough to cope with our rapidly aging population, I'm sure of that.

I'm also sure that, while the pay remains minimum wage and the conditions remain shit for many, many of the ones going in are not going to be the ones I would want looking after me when I'm too old to look after myself. Obviously there are still some fantastic people working in care, despite this somehow, for which they have my total respect - there are just not enough of them now and definitely won't be in 10 or 20 years time.

@Flawedperfection

As much that there is a element of reward to the job there is a lost of stress as well. With very little support.

And if someon is on such low money they can even afford a weeks holiday to chill. Then what ever reward of the job there is gets overshadowed by hardship.

We either pay carers more. People will do ANYTHING for the right price.
Or we import cheap labour as we have done for decades - likely from Africa.

There will always be people going into care work I am sure of that.

Just not enough. I can assure you of that.

We are going to have to pay a lot more for it so it's an attractive option. I predict care in the home will start to include house value & expect to see a wealth tax. The new levy is a drop in the ocean!

Every school leaver has to do 2 years of elderly care in order to be eligible for it when they're older?

That's outrageous but there probably isn't even enough school leavers as we have an ageing population

Make it a requirement of claiming unemployment benefits that if roles like care are available then then you can't claim dole?

🙄

Bad carers are just as bad, if not worse than no carers!

exactly

It's really simple actually. Better pay and conditions. Then the sector will be better able to attract and retain suitable carers.

Plus I’ve had many conversations with agency around why staff have work 12h day makes no sense. They end up stressed and tired. You get little choice over call time, who wants go bed at 7pm because that’s the last call? Never worked out why couldn’t have evening shift to suit parents at home who can swap childcare say at 6pm then be on shift 6-10pm. A corner shop can mange cover agency’s last so. Same as NHS staff 14-16h shifts instead of 8 and more staff. Burn out is real

Forcing people into care work who are not suited to it isn't the answer. I work with vulnerable people and I don't want them cared for by someone only there because they've been forced to.

By the way I also get benefits and they top up my salary. I don't have time to take on care work too

@DockOTheBay

Also unpopular opinion but make assisted suicide legal and allow people to sign to say they want AS if they get to a certain stage of e.g. dementia

I'd back this 100%

@Cherryade8

Make it a requirement of claiming unemployment benefits that if roles like care are available then then you can't claim dole? I often see care roles advertised with flexible hours etc, people shouldn't be paid not to work.

You want to force people to care for vulnerable people??