Swimming lessons for 4 year old.

[EezyOozy]

My 4 year old is a total non-swimmer. We've been to the pool a few times and she splashes about a bit in the shallows mostly. I've tried to get a feel for swimming by getting her too hold on to the side and kick, or kick while I support her, but I've no idea what I'm doing.

She didn't go swimming due to Covid then we relocated and she's been on a waiting list for months.

Finally at the top of the list. She has a place in a preschooler class for 3-4 year olds. It's in the "small" pool, which is very shallow at one end and up to my shoulders at the deep end. The pool is divided in two for lessons and her class is in the deeper half.

I'm not allowed poolside, I know this is normal and the reasons for this, don't really like it though! The first battle will be actually having her be willing to go in, she won't know anyone . Anyway I'm trying to make her feel excited and grown up.

No arm bands are used. Don't like this either for a total non swimmer in the deeper half of the pool, but I know the reasons for this.

There is a ratio of 8 children to 1 teacher. So there will be 16 children in the pool with 2 teachers and 2 lifeguard watching. I don't like this either ! It seems too many kids!

I've spoken to the teacher about my concerns and she's lovely and I'm sure a great teacher... but I still feel uneasy about it.

I tend to be an anxious parent.... I know this. And I know she needs to learn to swim.

If I could find private lessons with a much smaller child ratio I would , but there doesn't seem to be anything around !

Would you all be ok with these lessons ? Am I being silly?

YABU. She'll be fine :)
Without you near by, she might surprise you and be totally ok about the whole thing. You're overthinking it.

I have managed to get my children into lessons on their own with a swimming teacher with sole use of the pool, so two children (3 and 6) and a teacher, but I also have to get in too to support the 3 year old when needed who can't touch the bottom.

I had to wait two years on a waiting list though and take a slot at an inconvenient time when it came up though! Unsurprisingly it's quite expensive too.

Meatshake I'm an ASA qualified teacher doesnt mean I would reorganise the staging programme. There's a reason Swim England framework works. Check it out on their website you can see the difference. I'm shaking my head at the doggy paddle its just teaching them poor techniques which will become habit and harder to correct when teaching front crawl. Arm bands are bouyoancy aids for swimming to keep a child afloat they shouldn't be used on a child who can swim they reduce moment in front crawl reducing the arm pull movement and recovering hence why they can only do doggy paddle. I'm baffled to be honest. I get my stage 4s swimming down from 2 metres swimming 25metres full front crawl, I'm ouzzled why they do the arm pull and no frog legs. They do breastroke and butterfly in stage 4.

She's tried a couple of arms at front crawl but it's not a continuous movement with side breathing yet there's no aquatic breathing that's why, she needs to be able to maintain her breathing blowing bubbles and coordinating her arms and legs before she could even think about learning to breathe to the side. Which would be stage 2 level. Meatshake

My DS is 4 and goes to swimming lessons, I am not allowed poolside, he has swimming aids on (a bit like armbands but just the thin circular ones) there are about 10 or more kids in his class (I've never really counted them), 2 teachers and a lifeguard. He has been in this class since he was 3.

Where are you getting that she's not got her face in the water? Her face is in the damn water, she pops up to breathe then her face is back in. She's been practicing that since she got to the swim school. Or is there something else I'm missing when you say aquatic breathing? She's kicking her legs, her arms just aren't at that fluid clockwork proficiency yet. But that's because she's only a few weeks in to learning it.

Where are you getting that she's wearing the armbands to learn strokes? As I've said they jump in with armbands, doggy paddle and play a bit to warm up and get used to being in the water, jump out, armbands off, down to business.

I find it weird that by your own admission you say that 5 year olds can't often swim the width of an Olympic pool unaided. I tell you that my daughter's class can all do that (albeit via doggy paddle, breast stroke and on their backs without using arms) and you tell me that your program is better and express concern. Respectfully, I will have to disagree with you and the results from the 6-8 year olds in the next class up who swim their strokes beautifully would suggest that they are at least on a par with your own swim program.

I'm done derailing the thread now.

I find it weird that by your own admission you say that 5 year olds can't often swim the width of an Olympic pool unaided. I tell you that my daughter's class can all do that (albeit via doggy paddle, breast stroke and on their backs without using arms)
Looking at the programme and swim England which is the swimming governing body the difference is massive and the programme your on is designed to keep kids in longer.

The doggy paddle which shouldn't be taught and use of arm bands is puzzling to me as a teacher, such a pointless exercise.
She's tried a couple of arms at front crawl but it's not a continuous movement with side breathing yet

That suggests she hasn't been taught to keep her face in long enough to blow all the bubbles out before turning her head. Il leave it now but professional opinion the programme doesn't compare to the Swim England framework, it's frustrating as a teacher when I heard about doggy paddle and use of arm bands its just not necessary.

Mine follow the Swim England programme. I’ve just looked at the website. I don’t think I’ve seen mine ever do doggy paddle.

Wish I’d been taught to swim properly.

My daughter is nearly 7 and has been following swim England since age 3 (with gaps for covid) without me in the pool. I am not sure of her stage but she swims in the main pool and can confidently swim a length of front crawl or backstroke using proper strokes and breathing. She can also swim underwater and do sitting dives. They never use armbands.

@Bananarama21

Troublesometooth frontcrawl 25 metres face in or doggy paddle?

Even before the pandemic, a quarter of children could not swim the statutory 25m by the end of year 6. The report says this will rise to 57 per cent of year 7s by 2025/26 unless some form of catch-up provision is put in place. Statically 1 in 4 children could not swim 25 metres by the end of leaving primary school. So when I hear all these amazing 5 years olds that can swim 25 metres is hard to believe, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, however it's a rarely happens.

Maybe it varies by area? 25m at 5yo may not be the norm here, but it's not unusual. Both my DCs got their 100m at ~5.5yo. DD2 is still currently 5yo (got her 100m in October), and swims in stage 5. They don't get many 5yo in stage 5, but it isn't unusual to see a few 6yo in each class. The swim teachers who also take the school lessons at our pool say that the DCs are usually either already reasonably competent swimmers or still complete beginners by the time they are coming with school. The 25% who leave primary unable to swim 25m aren't the DCs who attend swimming lessons at 5yo.

SkankingMopoke The 25% who leave primary unable to swim 25m aren't the DCs who attend swimming lessons at 5yo not necessarily correct many cancel lessons simply because they cannot afford them or they have additional children and can't afford to pay for them all.

But, does the Swim England programme actually work that well???
(I agree that learning doggy paddle is counterproductive for many though)

I grew up in Australia, didn't enter a pool till I was 6.5 due to ear problems, then started lessons over the summer prior to changing to a school that had its own pool thus regular swimming half the year from the start. My sister two years younger learnt at the same time and I don't think it was that long before we were 10-25 m competent. Despite me having poor gross motor coordination generally.

When my eldest started swimming lessons in the UK I found the progression baffling and agonisingly slow. Lessons with my youngest worked even less well (and for various reasons he ended up vaguely water safe but not really a swimmer till a crash course age 13). I have not been impressed by the Swim England programme in terms of it reliably building skills in good progression. A few years since I last looked at it and I realise things changed, but back when my eldest was in lessons they actually taught some things that essentially had to be reversed in the next stage.

The big thing I have come to realise, pondering this over the years, is that when I learned to swim, we had a lesson, then stayed at the pool for a little while and practiced some more. This just doesn't happen in the UK where you need indoor pools and space is at such a premium, so when your lesson is over there's no free swimming, the whole pool is still in lesson-mode.

I think the Swim England framework is more geared to producing swimmers for clubs and beyond (there was a thread on here recently about the need to do butterfly - my ds didn't have to do butterfly perfectly to progress through the stages, but a lot of swim schools are stricter and that does create bottlenecks in the system I think).

When I learnt to swim it was get down the pool any old how to get the badges and I only learnt proper bilateral swimming as an adult. So proper technique is important, but there's a balance.

Pythonesque depends on the teacher, can affect outcomes and how much they push them.Sometimes we do adapt the programme and introduce things earlier but on principle it's a good programme. I worked at a private swim school where stage 3s did breathing to the side, I found
the kids struggles as they didn't have a strong enough leg kick and ended stuck up in the stage for ages and got bored. It was good for introducing dolphin and frog leg kick though! That swim school didn't do lengths and having those kids from that swim school move over to our learn to swim they didn't have the stamia albeit good technique. Having taught both I prefer the swim England framework but il introduce things earlier such a breathing and push children where I can to be better. I agree some kids just can't do butterfly and if they can do everything else in stage 7 but
not butterfly to the swim england il sign them off its just using common sense.