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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

re my reaction to a rottweiler dog ? Or would you be the same ?

176 replies

chankins · 04/01/2008 20:59

Not sure if I over reacted today or not, but was at the beach with my three dc, my sister and her three dc, and my mum and her jack russel dog. All was fine until we saw approaching a large rottweiler off the lead, with a young couple and their toddler in a buggy close behind. TBH we said amongst ourselves why do people with little kids have dogs like that ? but then proceeded to pass without comment.
However then another large dog bounded up and started hassling the rottweiler, who didn't like it and started racing around, growling and snapping at the other dog. This ended up bascially on top of my mum and her little dog, and three of the children. (The other three were in buggies.) Neither owner had any control of their dog and they ignored the owners calling them away. I kept calling my dd1 (5) away from the scene as I was worried a fight would break out and she and her cousins would be caught in the middle. In the end I walked over, grabbed her arm and pulled her over to me and the buggies, and her cousins followed. I said to her ' come away from all those dogs'. The girl then got very shirty and offended and made comments about the rottweiler obviously not biting anyone. This was at the same time she shouted at her toddler to shut up as he was crying. We ignored and walked away. But honestly, why do people with small kids own such powerful dogs, and then can't even control them ?

OP posts:
Ripeberry · 05/01/2008 14:09

The OP was very restrained IMHO, if it was me i would have screamed at that girl, "get that DEVIL dog away from us".
Can't stand those type of dogs or staffies as they are just status symbols, they look ugly as well.
I've worked in Kennels in the past and most dogs are great, but Rotties and Staffies were really scary!
If any dog like that, come anywhere near me whilst i'm with my DDs i automatically put myself between them and the dog.
AB

hercules1 · 05/01/2008 14:10

I wouldnt have a staffy but I know lots of families who have them who dont have them for status symbols, same with rotties.

mum2GoogsandGoo · 05/01/2008 14:11

Good for you!! A family friend was a vet and of all the dogs he treated, he was only ever bitten twice - both times by Rottweilers!! Coming from a dog family myself, it is about time that dog owners faced up to the facts that there are no guarantees as to how family pets will react and the safest dog is one on a lead and under the thumb!!

Wisteria · 05/01/2008 14:13

I think the OP was spot on and the owners of the other dogs should have had more control. They may well have known their dogs wouldn't hurt the children but they could have been knocked over or traumatised by the experience - I think 'devil dog' is extreme and unfair.

Rottweilers are only nasty if not bred, trained and handled correctly.
They are also far more predictable than smaller dogs IME.

hercules1 · 05/01/2008 14:13

That doesnt really prove much though does it. My vets never been bitten by a rottie but he has by a golden retriever...

Wisteria · 05/01/2008 14:16

I think all that is being proven here is that all dog have teeth and are capable of biting but it is entirely to do with their upbringing as to whether they do or not.

Dogs can 'turn' from a decent dog into aggressive but that is generally to do with illness and more often than not in cocker spaniels or other breeds who are more prone to brain tumours.

whispywhisp · 05/01/2008 15:16

"A rottweiler is far more predictable than a smaller dog"......?

What do you base that comment on Wisteria? I'd be interested to know.

Wisteria · 05/01/2008 15:21

Personal experience - I find that the larger dogs are more 'readable' and smaller dogs are more likely to be unpredictable. I can generally tell with a bigger dog if they are approachable or not but with smaller (snappy) dogs I have got it wrong to my cost.

LoveAngel · 05/01/2008 15:26

Haven't read all the replies, sorry. My view: It's up to others if they want to have dogs and children. No problem with it at all. But no way would should any responsible dog owner get shirty about a parent's anxiety over dogs being around their small children. I do not like dogs. I don't like my toddler being left alone unsupervised with even my grandad's docile old mutt (I'm fine about him 'playing' with the dog when we're all in the same room - he likes animals, and I'm not totally paranoid!), but I would NEVER ;leave him alone with any dog and I ALWAYS guide him away from dogs in parks and other public places if they get too close. Why should I trust an unknown animal around my precious DS? I am not rude about it, but I am firm. YANBU.

whispywhisp · 05/01/2008 18:30

wisteria - thank you for your reply to my question.

I also found a much larger dog (ie the rottweiler) unpredictable and at my own cost too - same as you.

Yes my JRT is a small dog but believe it or not she's not snappy or yappy. This is due to the training, time and attention we have given her.

So we all have different experiences but these are also similar in many ways.

nogin · 05/01/2008 18:44

I dont think you can tust any kind of dog fully , nor should you .there dogs after all not toys or humans ,we have a lovley lab who is great with everyone but i still would not let her alone around the children , when the children have friends to play i always put the dog in another room or with me so i can keep an eye on her ,i love her to bits and dont think she would ever do anything to harm anyone its not in her nature ,But i also feel its not worth the risk she is a dog after all ,do i, can i realy know what shes all about ?

Its a hard one

nogin · 05/01/2008 18:45

I dont think you can tust any kind of dog fully , nor should you .there dogs after all not toys or humans ,we have a lovley lab who is great with everyone but i still would not let her alone around the children , when the children have friends to play i always put the dog in another room or with me so i can keep an eye on her ,i love her to bits and dont think she would ever do anything to harm anyone its not in her nature ,But i also feel its not worth the risk she is a dog after all ,do i, can i realy know what shes all about ?

Its a hard one

Wisteria · 05/01/2008 19:19

I have no doubt whatsoever that your dog is fine whispy - after all we're parents and presumably wouldn't countenance a dog in the house that wasn't...in fact didn't realise you had a JRT anyway.

Did you mean what I thought by your statement then about it being a selfish owner who allows their dog off lead as I don't think you replied.

lucyellensmum · 06/01/2008 09:55

There are a lot of misconceptions about the rotwieller on this thread. Some of them based on truth.

Rotweillers, like other breeds, have breed traits. Rotties tend to be very even tempered, calm animals. Extremely loyal and loving, without being over protective. They are pretty much afraid of nothing which is why they don't tend to bark and growl. However, it is not true that they never bark or growl to give a warning. They do, BUT it is likely that they will simply just bite.

Aussie, your experience of rotweillers must be extremely limited if you view them as all aggression and no intelligence. They are extremely intelligent and non agrresive.

An aggresive dog is usually a frightened dog.

BUT just because a dog isnt naturally aggresive does not mean that, in the wrong hands, it is not dangerous. The problem probably lies with the aggresive and unintelligent owners if the truth be told. Saying that, most rottie owners are responisble. However, the ones who have the status symbol dogs stick out like a sore thumb.

The problem in my opinion and experience, is that the rottie is an incredably dominant and confident dog. These dogs need to have a dominant and confident pack leader (owner in other words) who can kindly but firmly keep the dog out of the alpha position in the pack. What seems to be the overall trend in all of the tragic cases i have heard with rotties lately is that the dogs have attacked when the owners have not been around, so either the animals/children have been with a relative/friend or worse, with other children. That is lunacy, i don't think that the dogs were frightened of the children, but they probably see them as a threat to their pack, especially as they are normally not allowed to interact, therefore a negative association is already established. Without the pack leader there to reassure the dog and make it clear that the child is not a threat and must be treated as a dominant pack member the dog attacks. Im not saying this is the case, just my thoughts on the matter.

I love rotweillers, have owned two, as i have previously posted. Do i think they are safe around children ABSOLUTELY NOT.

There is another argument that other breeds are just as dangerous. Yes, that is true, as a vet nurse i was always being bitten by terriers and collies. Never by a rotwiellier, maybe that was partly because we would tread more carefully around the big dogs subconciously, but i think more down to the bigger dogs not being scared. I was only ever scared of a dog once, that was a golden retreiver, it had the most arrogant pig of an owner and it clearly rubbed off on the dog BUT again, i do actually think there ia more of a problem with a rottwieller. Its the strength firstly, my two were amazingly strong and would pull my 15 stone partner plus chair across the room in a game of tug. Also, it seems, although ive not experienced this personally, that rotties are not snappers, so they wont be the dog that just snaps and gives a nasty bite, once they "go" thats it they are determined and that is what is so scary.

We decided to rehome our rescue rottie when we had DD, we decided that once she was mobile he would have to be rehomed, this was because, although he was lovely and never showed any agression towards the baby EVER, i could not garuntee that i could always keep them separate, there may always be that split second when my back is turned and i wasnt willing to take the risk. Sadly Yazz passed away before he could be rehomed, on reflection i think that was better for him as he was a rescue dog and would have been difficult to rehome, especially as this was after the incident on the news with the rotties in the pub and battersea had told me he would more or less be unhomable, due to public feeling and reservations about the breed.

This breed needs to be very tightly regulated. Personally i would support a ban as we dont need rotties and they dont need us, if you see what i mean, however i would hate for the travesty that is the dangerous dogs act to rear its ugly head again.

lucyellensmum · 06/01/2008 10:12

As far as the lead argument goes, I think it is perfectly reasonable to have dogs off the lead in the appropriate place, also it depends on the dog.

I would not let my rotties off the lead where there were lots of people, ie the beach in the summer, as they were very friendly dogs and would always approach people. This can be disconcerting or simply annoying if you dont want a big slobbering hound wanting to say hello. However, the beach in the winter when all you are likely to meet is other dog walkers is quite different. Yes of course there will be people around sans dogs, but the odd one or two it is easy enough to put the dog on the lead for a short time. I always allowed my dogs free rein in the woods, sometimes we would turn a corner and be faced with families with young children. This was always a dilemma, as i think seeing an owner making a bee line to put the dog on the lead is often just as worrying to people than an owner who simply walks on. I would with my first rottie just tell him to sit, and he would, bless him, untill people walked past, more often and not the children wanted to stroke him, i always made sure i had hold of him before they did as he was a classic paw giver and would often bat them on the heads in the process On the whole the reaction in those circumstances was positive, probably because in that area you might expect dogs off the lead. I did have someone rant at me once, she was in the middle of no where with her children and husband. Started going on that i should have such a big animal on a lead, the big animal that was blatantly ignoring her children and about ten feet away sniffing after the rabbits. My response was to ask the husband to please put his wife on a lead as her language and demeanour around MY child left alot to be desired!

Most dog owners apply common sense, some dogs can walk happily among loads of people off lead and totally ignore them - thats ok, if not, keep it on a lead, its that simple. I do think that dogs should be walked off lead so the poster who suggested it was not cruel only to walk a dog on lead is right in that respect i guess, but it is not ideal that the animal doesnt get to run free and if you live in an area where this is not possible, i would suggest you dont have a dog.

hercules1 · 06/01/2008 10:59

Good 2 posts there, LucyEllenmum.

Bluenosesaint · 06/01/2008 11:04

Great posts

Wisteria · 06/01/2008 11:31

Totally agree with lucyellensmum on all her points. Intelligent, well thought out reasoning.
I have to say though that I do know Rotties in houses where there are also young children and the dogs are fine as long as they have either been introduced to the family after the children or where the adults have been proactive and, more importantly, constant in their ongoing training/ supervision of the dogs to realise their natural place in the family (ie at the bottom), but I have to say that IMO all dogs should be managed in this way.

In the same vein, children need to be taught how to react to and approach dogs, to respect dogs, and I feel it is very important that a family dog has a 'safe place' (the basket or bed) where the children are not allowed to interfere or pet the animal.

AussieSim · 06/01/2008 20:50

I have taken a slab from Wikipedia which supports many of the postings on here and also cites a few 'facts' that I think balance the discussion. The full entry from Wikipedia can be found here. It is on the whole very balanced and unemotional.

Aggressiveness
In recent years the breed has received some negative publicity, possibly related to the fact that Rottweilers were the number two breed of dog named in fatal human attacks from 1979 to 1998 in a report by the CDC.[6]. Dangerous behavior in Rottweilers results from their original breeding for aggressive guard dog traits. This tendency may extend towards other animals as well. Often injuries and maulings occur when an owner or passerby tries to separate fighting dogs, or unintentionally triggers a guarding behavior in a dog. In most cases, the type of behavior a Rottweiler exhibits is the result of past training (or lack thereof).[citation needed] Rottweilers may either be dangerous or benign, depending on the action taken by the owner in socializing the dog. The portrayal of Rottweilers as evil dogs in several fictional films and TV series, most notably in The Omen, has added to their negative publicity. Rottweilers are banned in many municipalities, some scattered countries, and are sometimes targeted as dangerous dogs by legislation. Many owners of Rottweilers are forced to obey state leash/muzzle laws, as in Germany and in France.

Examples of the breed?s potential danger are provided by the recent deaths of two infants on 29 December 2007 ? a 9 week old girl in Melbourne, Australia, and a one year old boy in Wakefield, England.

In the Melbourne death, a rottweiler that regularly showed his aggressive nature by violently barking and jumping at the fence as people walked by his master?s house, took the family?s first born from her cot and mauled her to death.[7]

In the Wakefield death, the one year old baby was being held by a seven year old girl when the rottweiler grabbed him from the girl's arms and then mauled him, inflicting terrible injuries. The victim died at the local hospital a short time later. The family owning the dog, reportedly told police she had not previously shown any signs of aggression.[8]

Coincidentally, the day before, a man suffered an arterial injury when he was attacked by a rottweiler as he attempted to break up a fight between two dogs in his back yard in Perth, Australia.[9]

lucyellensmum · 06/01/2008 21:39

As i understand, wikipeadia is hardly a peer reviewed journal with trustworthy research in it. I should imagine that the rottie is, sadly, not the only dog which has caused death. I have done alot of my own research into this breed and my personal and professional experience of them is that they are NOT a devil dog bent on destruction, they are most definately NOT bred as a gaurding breed (wikipedia has it wrong"). I DO support a ban, however i think it is unwise to simply flatly ban a single breed of dog as the irresponsible owner wanting a status symbol large dog will simply move onto the next breed, mastiffs for instance are becoming popular. These are well bred dogs with excellent temprements, of course, thoughtlessly bred and poorly cared for, we have another rottie on our hands.

The dangerous dogs act needs to change, it needs to recognise that ALL dogs have the potential to do harm and legislate accordingly. I can only pray that we do not see a rerun of the pit bull fiasco due to media hype and mass public panic.

Coby · 06/01/2008 21:42

If someone submitted an entry to wikipeadia that the Rottweiler is in fact a lion crossed with a grizzly bear it would probably be accepted as fact IME

lucyellensmum · 06/01/2008 21:59

you mean it isnt then coby ??

Coby · 06/01/2008 22:56

OMG - Don't tell me it was true - When I was a young kid I used to wait outside the supermarket with my (tied up) newfie while my mum did the shopping. Used to get approached by people all the time asking what he was (they were quite rare then) and I used to tell them he was a bear x wolf and I'm sure some of them genuinely believed me

Alambil · 06/01/2008 23:01

LOL coby!

AussieSim · 07/01/2008 05:08

and Guns don't kill people - people kill people ...

But you got Wikipedia on the origin of the breed - used for herding apparently originally, but from WWI used as Guard Dogs. Was there something else specific in the article you object to?

Should I believe this wikipedia entry?