To think it’s not going to be a case of heating or eating for many families

[LadyCatStark]

We can forget heating altogether! I know it’s a nice little rhyme but for many, many families it’s going to be a case of eating or putting just enough petrol in the car to get you to work to pay all these increased costs. Eating yourself, or feeding your kids (hopefully most people will choose their kids). Eating healthily or eating cheap rubbish.

I’ve just nipped to Aldi as I had a work appointment cancel in the area and spent £40 just on the few bits I needed, not even a proper shop. I could have cried that I’d driven even just the 15 minutes to my appointment and it was cancelled and every drop of fuel counts.

One of Ds core foods is apples. The price like most things has sky rocketed recently. It was 99p for a bag of 6 now it’s £1.50 for 6.

The other consideration too isn’t just to cost of the raw ingredients but the power to cook things.

I do cook from scratch, and I have the storage space to bulk buy things and to make things in bulk to freeze. But not everyone has that luxury either

Apples are 79p for a bag of 5 in Lidl.

I changed my voting habits as a result of Brexit.

Pre-Brexit I always voted with the most vulnerable person I know in mind.

I also voted for a UK party as I thought "the fishermen in Fife have more in common with the fishermen in Cornwall than either of them have with the MPs at Westminster"

This meant I always voted for Labour.

UK Govt reassured Scots that the best way to stay in Europe was to vote for the Union.

Well after the absolute palaver of the EU referendum I (and thousands of other Scots) will never vote for the Union again.

I won't vote for Labour again until it a) knows what a women is or b) we have an independent Scotland (so never then)

I'm pretty sure England won't be able to secure a Labour government without the support of Scotland. So you're all ducked. Conservative Govts till the end of time now I suspect (please, please, please, please prove me wrong)

This is definitely a consequence of Brexit.

@HomeHomeInTheRange

Apples are 79p for a bag of 5 in Lidl.

Only because they’re on special offer this week the normal price is £1.25 so okay we have a 40p saving I’ll concede that, still faced with the problem if the children won’t eat it it’s money down the drain whether it’s £1.60 or 16p it’s still wasted. Those saying children will eat when they’re hungry and if apples are all that’s available theyll eat them yes they will eventually that is correct, but the kind of people that haven’t fed the children Apple from day one I want to going to have the fortitude required to put up with whiny kids for the three days until you starve them into submission.

It'd cost me over £5 on the bus to get to Lidl, so 79p apples are not an option for everyone.

The only supermarket I haven't seen cheap fruit in is co-op. Even sainsburys which is widely considered expensive has fruit for cheap- blueberries £1, apples 89p (or mini apples 75p), bananas under £1 for 8, easy peelers 59p. There's no way to make them cheaper and fairly pay people in the supply chain, veg can be slightly more pricey but can get seasonal veg for 30p a pop, or frozen veg is good value. It's a factor, but poor nutrition isn't solely down to the price of the actual food- but lack of money and resources has an affect on diet overall.

@LizzieMacQueen

Re saving on heating water costs. What do you think would be an acceptable drop in showering habits? Once every second day? Or maybe better to shower daily but in tepid rather than hot water?

Military showers? Water to wet body. Water off. soap. Wash off

Showering once every couple of days is absolutely fine, particularly for those of us who are now WFH / hybrid etc. Absolutely no need whatsoever to be showering every day.

It also helps if you have a crappy little shower like we do; there's no temptation to stand under its piddly little flow for ages. I dream of a luxurious waterfall shower but am actually quite glad now that we didn't get around to getting one installed!

Thing is, it's always the poorest who are hit hardest. They can't stock up when items are on sale, they don't have the funds or the storage space; they can't "batch cook and freeze" because they live in shabby accommodation with inadequate cooking facilities and probably no freezer.

The housing is cold and damp meaning they get sick a lot - and therefore lose pay, even jobs.

Getting to their low paid job becomes too expensive to continue, they can't afford the fares or the clothes.

It's a hell of a hole to climb out of when you're constantly worried about making the rent and keeping your children well.

Most of us prefer not to think about these people, the ones whose voices are usually missing from the conversations about the cost of living.

It's like being permanently in a war zone, and arises tell us that many children who grow up in poverty suffer PTSD and have poor health outcomes.

Several European countries have capped utility prices and/or set up a one-off windfall tax on the utility companies making billions in profits (Shell, Exxon, etc), several MPs here have asked the government to have a one-off windfall tax but the government refuses to tax their funding partners. It’s outrageous and I have written to my MP.
“Given the massive profits the energy
companies are making, and seeing
how France has been able to keep
energy inflation to 4% with a windfall
tax, its bewildering that Johnson
refuses to impose a windfall tax on
energy companies to support families.“

Exactly sweetbelly. Things are going to get tough for us all but so much tougher for those who are already struggling.

And often those people are the ones who can’t easily get to Lidl or Aldi for their shopping so are reliant on corner shop places which are more expensive to start with

@MMMMMaria

Absolutely, Johnson could also reduce fuel duty and still get in more than he was last year.

Very short sighted as these price rises will mean less consumer spending, more job losses, higher benefit payouts.

I guess that these people are so out of touch that they don't consider a yearly heating bill of 3k of any concern.

@LadyPropane

You also need to know how to do it and be confident that anyone you're cooking for will eat it as well. Those are not ducks that everyone will have in a row.

Absolutely true. My 2 year old doesn't understand that we're currently going through a hard time financially and absolutely refuses to eat my "healthy tasty and nutritious" home made beans with jacket potato 3 times a week. So it stops being economical and becomes lots of wasted food and a hungry, whining toddler.

And of course, people on lower incomes are less likely to have the ability to freeze any extras. If I'm batch cooking a new cheap recipe and the result is something not everyone will eat, not a problem because I have a big freezer, so it can go in there while those of us who'll eat it can get through it in time. I can also afford to buy an alternative to eat now for anyone who's unwilling. These things, borne of having a bit more cash, make batch cooking much more accessible.

Now most people will get to a point where they'll be so hungry they don't care what they eat, but there's quite a long way to go and a lot of whining children before that point. It's actually quite normal for humans to have some food they're disgusted by, particularly at some stages in life. And people know this. So the chicken nuggets that you know everyone will eat are often the more sensible choice.

I think a lot will have to be careful. At present we have treats, although, they're always done carefully, ie a meal out is just mains, camping most of the time and I'm careful with use of petrol and what I choose in the supermarket. This means we have money left over each month, which goes into savings - those savings are there for essential household repairs.

Prices going up will certainly mean treat cutbacks. We've only used the car for going to work so far this month. There's only two of us right now, but I've been walking to local supermarket and carrying whatever I can 2/3 times a week, and not using the car. It's warmer now, so we're only putting the heating on for a short while if its 16c in the living room when we get up. I'm really thinking about cheaper meals and have gone through cupboards to make sure nothing is wasted. I think/hope we'll be ok but it's going to be tight with prices due to rise higher, and just hoping we don't have a major repair soon.

Haven't looked at the detail but am unsure whether France's approach was a windfall tax. Rather think it was an instruction to a State-owned firm.

@BrieAndChilli

It’s a dangerous spiral.

Those who are already on the breadline will have to make some very very tough choices which will result in some horrible consequences

Those who are very well off will notice higher bills but will be able to ride the storm but will probably see thier assets reduce eg stocks/investments etc

Those of us that are in the middle will have to cut back on luxuries in order to pay for the increase in fuel/food/utilities. That means no takeaways, no meals out, no trips to the cinema, buying less clothes and not getting haircuts as often.
This will then mean redundancies in those a sectors as the demand drops pushing more people into benefits and the breadline.
The less disposable money people have the less likely they are to be buying property or investing money or saving money - that then means less work for solicitors and bankers etc meaning more redundancies.
No one will really be safe and it’s going to be a tough time for all.

I share your concerns, @BrieAndChilli. I think we could be in for a horrible period of "stagflation" (inflation and rising unemployment).

The Brexit effect could mean it takes a while for unemployment to start to rise, but I can't see how job losses can be avoided when people have to cut back a lot on spending. And any interest rate rises, the Tories' favoured method of controlling inflation, will cause people to cut back still further.

Those on low incomes spend a trifling proportion of their income on non-essentials. Wtf they're supposed to cut back on to cover rising costs beats me.

I'm more worried about the economy now than I have been at any time since the early 80s, when unemployment hit 2 million for the first time ever. That would scarcely be news these days, 1.5m is pretty usual now.

And of course, in the early 80s, unemployment benefits were actually enough to live on, they didn't immediately cast you into penury.

@backintothefire

Showering once every couple of days is absolutely fine, particularly for those of us who are now WFH / hybrid etc. Absolutely no need whatsoever to be showering every day.

It also helps if you have a crappy little shower like we do; there's no temptation to stand under its piddly little flow for ages. I dream of a luxurious waterfall shower but am actually quite glad now that we didn't get around to getting one installed!

I've already cut back on showers. Considering using it on lower power, but having checked the smart meter it's only a third less and I think the reduced water flow to get a reasonable temperature will lead to spending longer in the shower, in that you need a certain amount of water to rinse the soap off thoroughly.

Also considering swapping to a bowl of lukewarm water and a flannel if I'm not washing my hair - at least in the summer, the lack of heating in the winter makes that an unpleasant prospect.

When I said to my brexity octogenarian mother that brexit would make us poorer, she said that people have too much money anyway. Nice of her to her solve that problem I thought.

My brexity octogenarian MIL says it will all be fine because we got through worse than this in the war and that she was always skint by Thursday when her kids were small and she just made something for dinner out of what she had in the cupboard and what was in season on her allotment.

I have to bite my tongue and not point out that people who are really poor don't have anything in the cupboard and that the only reason she was skint was because her husband was a financially abusive arsehole who kept her short of money while spending loads on his hobbies and squirrelling away cash. (After he died, her sons found £80k+ hidden in places like the loft and the garage).

And a washing machine is a luxury because she brought up 4 kids without one and just did hand washing every morning after they'd gone to school.

I changed my voting habits as a result of Brexit.

Pre-Brexit I always voted with the most vulnerable person I know in mind.

@RomeoOscarXrayIndigoEcho

I'd agree with this. My previous approach, that the primary factor in politics is to help the needy and vulnerable, is outweighed by my sense of the dangers of nationalism and parties who indulge it rather than challenge it.

@LakieLady

When I said to my brexity octogenarian mother that brexit would make us poorer, she said that people have too much money anyway. Nice of her to her solve that problem I thought.

My brexity octogenarian MIL says it will all be fine because we got through worse than this in the war and that she was always skint by Thursday when her kids were small and she just made something for dinner out of what she had in the cupboard and what was in season on her allotment.

I have to bite my tongue and not point out that people who are really poor don't have anything in the cupboard and that the only reason she was skint was because her husband was a financially abusive arsehole who kept her short of money while spending loads on his hobbies and squirrelling away cash. (After he died, her sons found £80k+ hidden in places like the loft and the garage).

And a washing machine is a luxury because she brought up 4 kids without one and just did hand washing every morning after they'd gone to school.

The only way they will ever learn is if they face the full consequences of their vote.

The "but we went through worse" is an obvious deflection.

The same people that voted the Brexit mess in are about to be hammered to scrap financially speaking.

@HomeHomeInTheRange

Apples are 79p for a bag of 5 in Lidl.

Which is very handy if you live near a Lidl. It's a 14 mile round trip to my nearest one, £5 return on the bus which is every 2 hours, plus a 1-2 mile walk back from the bus stop or another £3.20.

We do have an Aldi, but it's shite compared to Lidl (except for cleaning products, which are brilliant in Aldi).

I feel really sorry for people in rural areas. A lot of them don't have mains gas, so it's electricity or oil for heating, and they have a choice between the extortionately expensive village shop or a £7 bus fare to get to the nearest budget supermarket.

My MIL won't have to face the consequences, @BambinaJAS, because both her daughters are very well off and help her out financially. When her cooker packed up recently, one of the SILs ordered and paid for a new one online and SIL's husband installed it for her.

They pay for her landline/internet and mobile, she doesn't pay rent or council tax and her water charges are only £19 a month. Her only other bill is electricity, which is only about £40 a month atm. She only heats one room at a time though!

@LakieLady

My MIL won't have to face the consequences, *@BambinaJAS*, because both her daughters are very well off and help her out financially. When her cooker packed up recently, one of the SILs ordered and paid for a new one online and SIL's husband installed it for her.

They pay for her landline/internet and mobile, she doesn't pay rent or council tax and her water charges are only £19 a month. Her only other bill is electricity, which is only about £40 a month atm. She only heats one room at a time though!

So she mooches from her family but still manages to complain.

The cognitive dissonance of some of these folks is amazing.

@Zilla1

Haven't looked at the detail but am unsure whether France's approach was a windfall tax. Rather think it was an instruction to a State-owned firm.

Sadly, privatising all our utilities in the 80s means that this option is no longer available to us.

EDF customers in the UK may well be subsidising the energy costs of French consumers.

@gerispringer Electricity, not 'energy' has been capped at 4% in France. The cost of gas in France has increased by nearly 13%. However this is not the full story - our monthly payments have increased to €250 in 2022 from €150 in 2021. Our reconciliation payment at the end of 2021 was €600. So it was actually a 60% increase starting in mid-2021. We are not using gas any differently - this is for heating and hot water only. We have a 3-bedroom house (admittedly old and draughty).

We changed to an electric car (second-hand) last summer though so are saving a bit on fuel costs. We have bought new (second-hand) dishwasher and washing machine in the last 3 years and run them on overnight electricity. As a result, our overall electricity consumption in 2020 and 2021 was pretty much the same.

Food has always been more expensive than the U.K. France imports less fresh food (no asparagus or peaches in March and no parsnips in July).