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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

Nursery attendance / absence. Is this the norm?

91 replies

Pollysforever · 07/03/2022 21:56

My 3 year old and 2 year old go to a small nursery, both receive the 15 hours free funding so go for two full days each week.

As you'd expect with toddlers they're no strangers to picking up all sorts so have had some time off here and there on account of things like D&V, temperatures and coughs throughout the pandemic, awaiting test results etc. Nursery wouldn't accept them in with anything that could be covid understandably.

The nursery also has a policy of: snotty nose = stay at home (which is fine by me)

So a few weeks ago before half term it was my son's 3rd birthday and we booked to take him to shreks adventure. It had to be on a Monday as that's the only day dad was able to come with us. DS needs an adult ratio of 2:1 because he has special needs and trips out need to be planned with military precision. I wasn't going to deprive DD of the trip just to send her to nursery so ofc she came too.

When I told the nursery they wouldn't be in that day as we were taking them to see Shrek for DS birthday I got a bit of a lecture from the nursery manager about booking it on a nursery day and whether I could have chosen another day. I said no.

She mentioned there had been a few absences and we needed to get his attendance up next term.

I was a bit as nursery isn't compulsory but I was caught off guard so said right... ok then.

Since they've come home from nursery today they're clearly coming down with something. DS has puffy eyes and a cough, DD has a temperature of 39 and she's lethargic. I sent a text to let nursery know they won't be in tomorrow and why.

I'm just wondering is it the norm for nurseries to be on at parents about attendance?

DS starts school in September which is a different kettle of fish obviously.

OP posts:

NuffSaidSam · 07/03/2022 22:15

The 'taking up a space' argument is ridiculous. She's not denying some other child a pre-school education because her children have had one day off for a special treat.

If the nursery have got a policy of sending them home for every minor illness/snotty nose then attendance is going to be low.

TokenGinger · 07/03/2022 22:16

Also, just to add to my last comment, the FFT data our schools receive also show that the figures for nursery places being undersubscribed is common across the national picture.

The admittance of children below compulsory school age has taken a drastic decline since Covid and it's becoming increasingly more common for parents to not send children to school until the term after their fifth birthday.

Original poster

Pollysforever · 07/03/2022 22:19

@Endofdaysarehere

Your dd has 2yr old funding because the government has judged that the safest and best place for her to be is in nursery, so yes, you will need to take them to nursery as often as you can (illness aside). Any nursery would be the same. As PP have said, if you book holidays for any reason while they should be in nursery you are breaking the terms of the agreement you have made. The nursery could lose money,

Safest place for her to be?

Sorry I might be misunderstanding where you're coming from but there are no safeguarding concerns.

She goes for the socialization because I thought it would be nice for her, nobody else has suggested she needs to be there.

OP posts:

Looubylou · 07/03/2022 22:20

It's be a use it is not "a free place" the government is paying. The nursery won't get the funding, if the children's attendance isn't high enough.

Original poster

Pollysforever · 07/03/2022 22:28

They haven't told me that, though.

When she was speaking to be about the attendance she mentioned it being important to get kids into a routine before school. Nothing about funding.

Are people absolutely certain it's a funding issue?

OP posts:

Original poster

Pollysforever · 07/03/2022 22:30

Oh and also, when speaking to her about the trip I said I was happy to send them in on a different day that week so they did the two full days if they'd prefer that to them just having a day off and was told no.. so it can't all be about funding?

OP posts:

TokenGinger · 07/03/2022 22:37

@Pollysforever

It's not. They still get the funding. Their funding is based on their census, which is the number of children on roll entitled to the 15 hours. I'm not sure why so many people are assuming the nursery won't get paid. They do.

50DaysAF · 07/03/2022 22:37

I think @Endofdaysarehere is thinking of the second part of this guidance:

“Your 2-year-old can get free childcare if you live in England and get one of the following benefits:

Income Support
income-based Jobseeker’s Allowance (JSA)
income-related Employment and Support Allowance (ESA)
Universal Credit, and your household income is £15,400 a year or less after tax, not including benefit payments
child tax credits, and your household income is £16,190 a year or less before tax
the guaranteed element of Pension Credit
the Working Tax Credit 4-week run on (the payment you get when you stop qualifying for Working Tax Credit)

2-year-olds can also get free childcare if they:
are looked after by a local authority
have a statement of special education needs (SEN) or an education, health and care (EHC) plan
get Disability Living Allowance
have left care under an adoption order, special guardianship order or a child arrangements order”

DockOTheBay · 07/03/2022 22:51

@nearlyspringyay

I can see both sides tbh. You're taking a funded place and then taking them to the cinema.

On the other hand if our nursery had a snotty nose stay away policy dts would literally not have been in nursery.

They still get their funding why would they care.

ChocolateMassacre · 07/03/2022 23:00

Isn't one of the joys of having nursery-age children that you can take them out of nursery during term-term for holidays/family stuff ?

I would explain to the nursery that your child isn't of an age for compulsory education and that you think one day out of nursery for a family event is perfectly acceptable. All of the rest of the days are due to their policy, not your choices, so involuntary absences on your part. The only way you can get your DC's attendance up, therefore, is for the nursery to change its policy or for your DCs to stop getting ill (which you can't control).

If my DS's nursery had had this policy, there would have been very few children there from October to February. Certainly, my DS had a permanent runny nose for 3-4 months last year.

Thewindwhispers · 07/03/2022 23:02

That’s odd. My (funded) nyrsery were always very happy if we chose not to come in as they still got paid for looking after less children.

🤷‍♀️

BulletTrain · 07/03/2022 23:08

Nope, not normal. DS is 3. We can have 2 weeks holiday and not pay. We took him our for a week in December for a holiday and they just said have a lovely time! This is also a private nursery ages 1-4.

CookieMunch · 07/03/2022 23:14

Have you checked the details you got about the funded hours. When mine had funded hours a few years ago there was a minimum attendance policy attached to it (by gov not by the nursery). They may be concerned that your funding will be withdrawn if they’ve missed a lot. I’d ask them if this is the concern. It makes sense if you think about it. Otherwise nursery’s could claim funding for kids who regularly don’t attend and it is taxpayer money after all.

MissM2912 · 07/03/2022 23:14

Ok- I am with the nursery manager on this. While not enforceable- it is beneficial for the child to be in a good routine. It disrupts the other children with coming and going, impacts on planning, and some children become unsettled. It isn’t ‘free childcare’- childcare practitioners deserve the same respect as teachers and you wouldn’t take kids in and out of school whenever suited.
And as someone said above- if child as been awarded a two year old place they must have some other potential vulnerability- even if mild.

Kite22 · 07/03/2022 23:15

We pay but I don’t expect them to tell me about attendance.. it’s a service as simple as that.

It isn't as simple as that. Not looking at the whole picture - it might be for your family.
Some children - and this is particularly often the case where dc have an additional need - really struggle when they have a big gap between Nursery sessions. They have to 'start again' with the settling in as it can have been a long time since their last session.
OP has pointed out her ds has significant needs and starts school in September. If the school are to stand any chance of getting additional funding to support him in school, the Nursery need to be able to evidence the support they have given and the impact of that support. EVen if that isn't teh case, many, many dc struggle with that big gap. If the 15 hours are spread across the week (5 x 3 mornings or 5 x 3 afternoons) then missing a session here and there has less impact, but when they are in {say} Mon, Tues, then miss the next week, that is a long time for a 4 yr old with significant needs and a 2 year old to cope with in terms of some dc making progress with socialising, and understanding expectations at Nursery and so forth.

Now, obviously I don't know the Nursery and don't know the OP's dc, but that can be quite a common scenario in Nurseries.

Stars1979 · 07/03/2022 23:17

I have a 4 yr old. Taken my child out of nursery for various reasons over the years, holidays, weekends away,day trips re birthday. I let nursery know and all they say is "thank you for letting us know" thats it. If i was told what you were told, I would very very shocked.

Kite22 · 07/03/2022 23:17

should say 5 x 3 hour mornings / afternoons

MissM2912 · 07/03/2022 23:19

And the not being keen to change days will be because of the potential impact on the children in the other days- children with suspected ASD for example may struggle with a child they don’t know suddenly appearing.
I also would be concerned about why other nursery’s don’t care- they should be trying their best to ensure all children are benefiting and meeting their developmental milestones- not just provide childcare to help parents. The focus should be on benefitting the child. This manager sounds on the ball.

Toothsil · 07/03/2022 23:20

Ours was very much of the view "make the most of being able to do things before they're in full time education and you can't".

MissM2912 · 07/03/2022 23:21

Toothsil- that sounds like ‘the fewer children we have in the less hassle for us’.

Original poster

Pollysforever · 07/03/2022 23:24

@50DaysAF

I think *@Endofdaysarehere* is thinking of the second part of this guidance:

“Your 2-year-old can get free childcare if you live in England and get one of the following benefits:

Ah I understand, thank you.

I get universal credit, DS also has an EHCP

OP posts:

Chonfox · 07/03/2022 23:25

Sounds like a very odd nursery! The snotty nose rule is ridiculous and as others have said would mean a constant stream of absent children (is that why she's giving you a hard time? She hasn't realised why the place is empty?! )

I take my DC out of nursery as and when I need to, often with no explanation just a courtesy email/text to let them know. I have never been questioned and would be if I was. It's none of their business when you book your child's birthday trip.

Original poster

Pollysforever · 07/03/2022 23:27

@MissM2912

Ok- I am with the nursery manager on this. While not enforceable- it is beneficial for the child to be in a good routine. It disrupts the other children with coming and going, impacts on planning, and some children become unsettled. It isn’t ‘free childcare’- childcare practitioners deserve the same respect as teachers and you wouldn’t take kids in and out of school whenever suited. And as someone said above- if child as been awarded a two year old place they must have some other potential vulnerability- even if mild.

I wouldn't take children in and out of school no, because it's compulsory.

Nursery isn't and so I was acting on that premise.

I was never told I shouldn't be taking them on outings on days they were due at nursery because I was going by the impression that attendance wasn't compulsory.

If there had been any talk of how they prefer kids not to take days off where avoidable I would've had that in mind.

OP posts:

MissM2912 · 07/03/2022 23:29

But this child has been given a funded place as they are seen to be in need of it? It isn’t as childcare so OP can go to work but to bring the child on developmentally and close the gap with other children. Therefore they should be there and making the most of this EDUCATIONAL resource.

Original poster

Pollysforever · 07/03/2022 23:29

OP has pointed out her ds has significant needs and starts school in September. If the school are to stand any chance of getting additional funding to support him in school, the Nursery need to be able to evidence the support they have given and the impact of that support.

He has an EHCP and a place at a specialist school for autistic children.

His current nursery is also predominantly for special needs children, DD doesn't have special needs but they were happy to take her because she has a sibling there.

OP posts:

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