Electric cars

[veevee04]

With the price of petrol going up I've been looking at upgrading to an electric car I only have a 1 litre engine so very cheap to run compared to some. I can't get over the cost !! Even basic ones with an ok range are very very expensive. I'm now looking at hybrid cars which seem to be a bit cheaper than EVs I'm wondering what will happen when production of petrol/diesel cars are banned will everyone eventually have to lease a car ? Many lower paid jobs rely on having access to transport, nurses for example.

@Aniita

Vehicle excise duty (AKA road tax) can be changed at any time, and has been in the past. There was a pretty major shift a few years ago from a flat rate to it being based on emissions. The underlying scales can be changed at any time. There's no rule/law preventing any changes being made nor the method of charging being changed.

If your VED charges have remained the same for the past few years, then that is because, and only because, the Chancellor hasn't changed it for that banding. He could if he wanted to, but obviously chose not to.

In a few years time when the hundreds of billions of tax revenue raised from VED, fuel taxes, etc etc disappears, then it will have to be made up elsewhere, which will basically and inevitably be finding ways of taxing electric car driving. That could be excise duty increases, congestion charges, mileage related taxes, or a mix of all three. But, it WILL happen as the loss in tax revenues from petrol/diesel cars will have to be recouped from electric cars.

[quote Kazzyhoward]@Aniita

Vehicle excise duty (AKA road tax) can be changed at any time, and has been in the past. There was a pretty major shift a few years ago from a flat rate to it being based on emissions. The underlying scales can be changed at any time. There's no rule/law preventing any changes being made nor the method of charging being changed.

If your VED charges have remained the same for the past few years, then that is because, and only because, the Chancellor hasn't changed it for that banding. He could if he wanted to, but obviously chose not to.

In a few years time when the hundreds of billions of tax revenue raised from VED, fuel taxes, etc etc disappears, then it will have to be made up elsewhere, which will basically and inevitably be finding ways of taxing electric car driving. That could be excise duty increases, congestion charges, mileage related taxes, or a mix of all three. But, it WILL happen as the loss in tax revenues from petrol/diesel cars will have to be recouped from electric cars.[/quote]
Of course they will change. But changes haven't previously affected already bought cars. Like in the example I gave in my previous post.

We lease a zoe. If you look at the total costs over 3 years (v. low running costs) then it's not bad. And dh loves it. We use it for his daily commute and have a larger ICE car for family trips. It's charged a couple of times a week either at home overnight or in a supermarket car park while we shop.

EVs are far more reliable than fossil fuel cars. Less likely to go wrong.

Believe me, there is plenty to go wrong and, according to a Which study, less reliable than fossil fuel cars. Tesla being the worst.

www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-10569557/Electric-cars-reliable-petrol-diesel-says-Which.html

@etulosba

Aye but it's software so is a separate issue to comparing the ICE with an electric motor. I don't quite understand why software isn't quite up to scratch with EV's as they're much simpler than all the control necessary for an ICE but is definitely solvable.

As a method of propulsion however, EV's are streaks ahead in almost every measurable way.

[quote etulosba]EVs are far more reliable than fossil fuel cars. Less likely to go wrong.

Believe me, there is plenty to go wrong and, according to a Which study, less reliable than fossil fuel cars. Tesla being the worst.

www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-10569557/Electric-cars-reliable-petrol-diesel-says-Which.html[/quote]
I've definitely had far more problems with my Tesla than any other car that I've owned in my life until this point combined. Still I love electric and think that Tesla has got lots right with its cars. I wouldn't say reliability is one of them though. For me the pros of electric outweigh the cons and I wouldn't want to go back to petrol or diesel now, they just feel so slow and I cba with having to go somewhere to fill it up when I can charge at home. They are expensive though and sadly out of reach for a large chunk of people which I hope changes soon.

[quote etulosba]EVs are far more reliable than fossil fuel cars. Less likely to go wrong.

Believe me, there is plenty to go wrong and, according to a Which study, less reliable than fossil fuel cars. Tesla being the worst.

www.thisismoney.co.uk/money/cars/article-10569557/Electric-cars-reliable-petrol-diesel-says-Which.html[/quote]
The Which report - Complete load of rubbish - I have lost faith in Which after I read that. They are reporting and comparing faults in EV's that are resolved with a quick reboot (you know like a phone or pc or any other electronic equipment!) with a full garage visit for a petrol vehicle.

@Kazzyhoward.

The negative points you raise are really quite common and repeated by so many people on various forums. I've no doubt that the government will eventually look to recoup taxes but not whilst the number of ICE cars far outweigh the number of EV's (I think EV's account for less than 5% of cars on UK roads). The amount of people dragging their heels or making up reasons for not buying or hating EV's is only going to keep numbers low, which will keep running costs low for the foreseeable future.

But let's assume that costs will suddenly rise in two years time. How does that negate the savings already made by all those who have taken the plunge? I've owned an EV for three years and have saved a small fortune. Some have owned EVs for ten years. Even someone getting a company car will save a fortune on BIK so don't think they'll be too bothered about costs going back up in the future.

Of course they will change. But changes haven't previously affected already bought cars. Like in the example I gave in my previous post.
Yes they have, the 2003 changes were retrospectively applied to vehicles previously registered from 2001 onwards. That made many vehicles almost unsaleable overnight.
The current consultation (and previous ones) have suggested retrospectively applied changes. You really can't trust government/treasury not to do this.

Aye but it's software so is a separate issue to comparing the ICE with an electric motor.

Some issues may be software, but not all. Tesla, in particular, has had issues with hardware. More established motor manufacturers seem to suffer less.

They are reporting and comparing faults in EV's that are resolved with a quick reboot (you know like a phone or pc or any other electronic equipment!) with a full garage visit for a petrol vehicle.

That may be true, but owners still lost the use of the car for an average five days a year compared to three for petrol vehicles.

I'm in need of a second car - for those that have EV how much is the cost to charge it at home say particularly given the current cost of electricity?

Ours would be for short local journeys only really - school / childcare runs etc

prices will come down but dont believe it will cheap motoring. Insurance on eg tesla is high apparently and one the Govt revenue on petrol starts falling electric cars will be charged (see what I did there?) accordingly. Road pricing is the dream option but a tax/additional charge on the electricity could be an option

@Pedallleur

prices will come down but dont believe it will cheap motoring. Insurance on eg tesla is high apparently and one the Govt revenue on petrol starts falling electric cars will be charged (see what I did there?) accordingly. Road pricing is the dream option but a tax/additional charge on the electricity could be an option

Insurance on a Tesla is no different to any other car - it was cheaper than my existing Ford.

And you have to remember EV owners are saving now so no road tax, no company car tax (it's 1% vs 25-37%), no congestion charge, no ULEZ charges etc etc. yes things will change in the future but it's mighty cheap now...

@twinsetandpearl

I'm in need of a second car - for those that have EV how much is the cost to charge it at home say particularly given the current cost of electricity?

Ours would be for short local journeys only really - school / childcare runs etc

If you have something like an older Nissan Leaf it has a 24 or 30 KWh battery. Take electricity cost and multiply, remember that is for a FULL charge (0 to 100%). Mostly it'll be (say) 25p * 20kwh = £5.00 which will get you about 80-100 miles.

@twinsetandpearl

I'm in need of a second car - for those that have EV how much is the cost to charge it at home say particularly given the current cost of electricity?

Ours would be for short local journeys only really - school / childcare runs etc

@twinsetandpearl it really depends on your night time tariff, how much you charge, the kw available at your home and of course the EV model and battery size etc etc. there are some online calculators which estimate (try ZapMap).

As a guide - when I used my parents driveway to charge our Renault Zoe overnight we calculated it cost around £5 to top the car up to about 50%. But it is sloooow.

Most people don't tend to charge up to 100% at home as that would take hours, but just keep it topped up enough for their commute or school run. Presumably your school run is pretty close so you wouldn't be needing a full capacity each morning (in our case roughly 230 miles). The faster or rapid chargers you get out in the street or at garages, service stations and shops can be up to 150 times faster so often that's far easier. Eg I have a shopping centre I visit where the rapid charger takes 90 minutes to give me a full battery if I am down to below 10%. Also a favourite pub car park where we go for Sunday lunch and top up to full while we are there!

We don't have a driveway but we get free charging out and about through our car lease service so we don't pay to charge. Have a look at ONTO if you are interested.

Cost of charging from empty is the battery size in kwh x unit price of electricity. So my Tesla with a 75kwh battery (which does around 200 miles) will cost 75 x 28p to charge from empty to full so £18.75.

I've got a Hyundai ioniq. It does about 125 miles to a charge in the winter (climbs to about 155 in the summer) and it costs me £4.50 to charge it from about 40% to full overnight on a cheaper tariff.
To charge it at a street fast charger is about £8.00.

Both me and my partner use it. We've done 15,000 miles since we bought it. I reckon it's saved us at least £600/month on fuel.

Thanks all

It's just for school runs and childcare drop off/pick up and the odd supermarket run - if it did more than 10-15 miles a day on average I'd be surprised

Sounds like electric could be something to think about but I'd need to see if my employer will be starting a salary sacrifice scheme - might be worth holding out to get an EV

@twinsetandpearl our IPace which has a large range and a large battery is charged on an overnight tariff currently fixed at 5p
And costs about £4.50 for a real range of about 250miles
In summer our cost is reduced as we have solar panels and charge in the day.

@twinsetandpearl

I'm in need of a second car - for those that have EV how much is the cost to charge it at home say particularly given the current cost of electricity?

Ours would be for short local journeys only really - school / childcare runs etc

I think it's variable due to the way things are changing with electricity suppliers and prices. However, I'm on Octopus Go, so 5p/kWh between 00:30-04:30.

For my i3s, this is perfect and can charge overnight. The range is about 120 miles and costs about £1.50.

We picked up our Kia e-niro 2 long range last week. So far we're loving it (although obviously we've only had it a week!).

Due to the inflated prices of used cars, we sold mine to Cazoo for a great price, and part-exchanged my husband's in to the Kia garage. We also ordered in October, before the grant changed, so got £2.5k off the price.

All of that meant we spent around £12.5k which included purchasing an old banger for me (just wanted to run around, and it's £20 a year tax).

My husband's work have free electric chargers, which is a great perk, and means we'll very rarely need to charge it up at home. With the cost of electricity rising, we've estimated that could save us as much as £600 a year on charging.

It comes with a 7 year battery warranty, we'll probably look to change it in 3. We did look at leasing, but couldn't really make the numbers work (sadly my husband's work don't have any lease schemes yet, although they've been talking about it).

So turns out my employer has a salary sacrifice EV scheme coming out next month

So just trying to do some sums

Big question is ...recently I had a pay rise which took me over the threshold for the child benefit charge so no longer get CB. If I sigh up to the EV scheme and say the salary sacrifice is £500 per month could I then also start to receive CB again (or at least a portion of it) ? Is that how it could work?

Yes your salary sacrifice could take you back under CB threshold. It could be an absolute no brainer for you as majority of cost will be offset by lower tax / NI and CB returned. Only thing to look out for is if you are on an average salary pension scheme it will also make drag your average down slightly if you plan to stick with the lease arrangement long term.

@Atlanticpa

Thankyou definitely something to consider as CB is worth £200 a month to us

I'd probably go for the cheapest on there that's looks to be a Nissan Leaf or Mazda XC30