Refugees

[Rinatinabina]

Do you think people generally would be more open to receiving refugees if they were primarily women and children?

For example if there were mainly women in tents in Calais do you think Britain generally would be happier accepting them than they are men?

YABU: it wouldn’t make a difference
YANBU: people would be more welcoming to women

@Wintersbone

Of course they are more open to women and children. Women and children are far safer. It's not debatable. Men are a far greater risk. Men from a culture that doesn't value women or sees them as object are an even greater risk. It has bugger all to do with othering it has to do with common sense.

What culture is this, because a lot of Afghan men and women have been killed fighting for women's rights for example. Like hunted down and executed in their own homes, even publicly. You can't generalise all, why specific people are we talking about here?

@blodbav That's the same as the "not all men" argument. It's true but it's not relevant. If you want to offer shelter to a man from the Middle East and take that risk while working out his cultural ideas then be my guest. Most women wouldn't.

@SpiderVersed

I don't think it would make any difference at all - bigots will be bigots.

Our track record as a nation is absolutely disgusting. We take far fewer than our share and bleat about it endlessly. We're a disgrace.

We're a small island and last time I looked we have a multi cultural society

[quote Wintersbone]@blodbav That's the same as the "not all men" argument. It's true but it's not relevant. If you want to offer shelter to a man from the Middle East and take that risk while working out his cultural ideas then be my guest. Most women wouldn't. [/quote]
I'm just asking what culture doesn't value women, I'm not sure where you got that from. If you're going to generalise, at least put who you're referring to.

NAMALT is the go to shit down on this site. No, this is nothing to do with that. It's like saying "not all black people are criminals" is like NAMALT. Lazy comparison, just address which culture disregards women because many people have risked their lives to save women in the Middle East.

.

I hate the low value we put on human life in general. I hate how easily we right people off because they have been traumatised, are homeless, elderly, have health issues, are mentally ill. I hate how much suffering and war there is. I hate the idea of all those young men being used as cannon fodder for rich men's wars. I hate it all. It is hard as the mother of boys and a girl to not feel that they have the same value as one another. But then on the titanic we would probably have been third class and locked in to drown, so maybe the titanic was a bad example.

Sometimes this place is hard work! I'm not going to do academic research just to answer a post, I'm just sharing my opinion.

My very unpolished and uneducated opinion I'm sure!

If it was up to me there would be no wars, and I do think that a lot of other women and mothers would agree with that because it's impossible to not empathise with those other mums seeing their boys go off to be soldiers, or coming home in body bags. If you can't see it it's because you have found a way to justify them dying and not your own dying by othering them and not seeing them as just like you and yours.

Yes I do think the reaction would be different if it was women and children in Calais.

But I worked in immigration previously and I saw a great number of 'child migrants' who were men older than me - and I was mid 20s at the time. I wouldn't have a strange man in my house - doesn't matter if he was British or a refugee. Statistically they are much more of a risk than a woman with children.

I'm just asking what culture doesn't value women
I'd say any country or culture where males outnumber females would be a good measure to go by.

Especially at birth.

There are many women staying to fight in Ukraine. Someone has to go with children. and the elderly
Systematic rape of women has become established as means of grinding down the civilian population.
There are already reports of rape in Ukraine. I'd take a bet that most men would want their children safe with their mothers

@Kendodd

I'm just asking what culture doesn't value women I'd say any country or culture where males outnumber females would be a good measure to go by.

I totally get that and it's true in some places - but it doesn't really apply to the places where a lot of refugees come from. I believe it happens/happened in India and China.

It's not nearly the trend in countries in the Middle East where people are actively fighting against repressive regimes (or complying out of blind fear). It's not fair to condemn them all when it's nowhere near as simplistic as that.

Even when IS we're around, people in Raqqa were forced to live there, many civilians couldn't leave. You can't just look at people and say they must hate women.

If you're talking about another group, please specify.

@FairyCakeWings

No, I don't think people would be more accommodating or sympathetic to women and children. They are a much bigger drain to the public purse than men who can work cash in hand.

Nice attitude

@thereisonlyoneofme

Unfortunately due to the threat of terrorism etc from certain parts of the world, some form of restriction has to be set. People are up in arms when it has turned out in the past criminals/bombers have bypassed the asylum system by illegal entry. re economic migrants If we want to migrate somewhere like Australia etc for work there is a process to be gone through you cant just turn up.

The Ukraine scenario is different, as is the Afghan resettlement
However, homes, education etc have to be found for all these people.
I m aware many will join relatives already here, or may only wish to stay until their homeland is safe again.

Also there is a lot of Tory bashing that no homes are being built. Try saying that in the South East where many thousands of houses are being built, with no infrastructure to go with it.

I live in the South East but this attitude really annoys me. The South East is not the whole of the U.K.

It's not nearly the trend in countries in the Middle East
It is.
Male babies are highly prized over females and sex selective abortion is not uncommon.

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_sex_ratio

Tbh I think you know perfectly well that across the ME and north Africa countries are heavily bias towards men. It's even enshrined in some of their laws ffs.

@Kendodd

Tbh I think you know perfectly well that across the ME and north Africa countries are heavily bias towards men. It's even enshrined in some of their laws ffs.

Wtf are you saying here?

I cannot understand these threads that pop up about ukrainian refugees all the time. The UK was crystal clear that no unsponsored Ukrainian refugees will be allowed in, and at the moment only close relatives of settled people can come under a specific temporary visa route.

@Kendodd

Tbh I think you know perfectly well that across the ME and north Africa countries are heavily bias towards men. It's even enshrined in some of their laws ffs.

People have died fighting for women's rights. Nice of you to ignore that.

And clearly exceptionally ignorant, pretending like you know what your talking about. There's so many ethnic groups and cultures but they're all brown so they must all be the same, innit

Are you seriously holding up places in the world where people are murdered for defending womens rights as a marker of a place with high value on women? So when Malala Yousafzai (and others) was shot for demanding the right to an education for girls you thought 'they must really value women where she lives'? And can I point out that the women living under these laws and practices are also brown or does that not matter just as long as we don't call out the perpetrators because they also happen to be brown?
No country in the world has completely cracked it when it comes to womens rights but let's not pretend that there aren't better and worse places in the world to be a women.

@Kendodd

I'm just asking what culture doesn't value women I'd say any country or culture where males outnumber females would be a good measure to go by.

There is no country on Earth that truly values women. If there were misogyny would actually be considered hate-speech. There would not be an overhwleming number of derogatory slurs describing women and girls as opposed to boys and men.

In a country where women are truly valued women would make up at least 50% of government leaders and business leaders. Women would not die needlessly from diseases with preventable causes, just because the world of medicine of dominated by men. Etc, etc.

Aside from the detail above... I live near Munich and know people who've taken mothers and children, solo women and small children and babies from an orphanage in (in the last case members of the Munich Ukrainian and indeed Russian community who speak relevant languages).

In the mostly male wave of refugees a few years ago this didn't happen though people mobilised to donate money and bikes and medical supplies and clothes and indeed to help access services and all sorts - accommodation was set up in sports halls and containers and there wasn't the grassroots movement to open up spare rooms.

This is completely logical from a purely objective point of view - statistically the risks from women and small children are very different from the risk from post pubescent and adult males and the risk to personal safety statistically completely different. That's not about deserving refuge but about the fact that regardless of whether victims are male or female statistically men commit the vast majority of violent crimes.

@ThinWomansBrain - I don’t think it’s unreasonable to want only women and children if you are accommodating people in your own home. I am a single mum with 2 dds - I definitely wouldn’t want an adult man I didn’t know in my house. I think it’s natural to find women and children less threatening than men (and statistics bear that out too - vast majority of violent crime is committed by men).