Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

AIBU that school should scrap “Pen Licences”

135 replies

mumof2exhausted · 04/03/2022 18:15

I just don’t get how it’s still a thing, it’s just another way to single out children who struggle with fine motor skills. As long as their writing is neat and legible does it really matter that it’s not cursive?

OP posts:
MorningStarling · 05/03/2022 10:50

Can you give an unlicensed writer a mechanical pencil? These look and feel a bit more "pen-like" and don't have to be sharpened or pressed particularly hard to write so a somewhere between a pencil and a pen in status.

Plus they're quite sharp so can be used as a makeshift weapon, they got me out of a sticky situation or two when I was at school, bullies instinctively stepped back when they feel the pricking pain as a bit of the lead penetrates their skin giving me a chance to get away.

BigBobBoots · 05/03/2022 10:54

NRFT, but just dropping in that as a ks2 teacher I hate pen licenses. I've had a good number of children with fms issues whose writing is dreadful in pencil but much better in pen. So frustrating that they were forced to write with the least suitable tool.

liveforsummer · 05/03/2022 10:57

I'm so glad this isn't a thing here in Scotland. Dd1's handwriting was appealing for most of primary (isn't great now either) and her teacher was always appealing to her to forget trying to join up and just wrote normally (so she could read it). Bizarre and outdated expectations especially in a world where as adults we write everything on devices for the most part

Getmeoutaherenow · 05/03/2022 11:00

I remember this and the distress it caused - teachers want to turn everything into a bloody competition with other kids, it's so unhealthy.

Chely · 05/03/2022 11:05

I hate cursive. I always found writing hard work and would have pain in my hands at school, I have arthritis in my hands but didn't get diagnosed until my 30's.

DietrichandDiMaggio · 05/03/2022 11:20

I work in year 6 and we give all of our children handwriting pens, which they are expected to use for all of their writing, except in maths books.

TrendingNowt · 05/03/2022 11:50

You're right, you don't need beautiful handwriting. Probably by the time they're grown, even paper forms will be a thing of the past. Will they ever need to write anything? I'm sure writing will be a rarity. Everything will be typed.

I think handwriting and writing should be an art. I think it is terribly sad that it isn't valued anymore, I suppose I'm old fashioned. Beauty is a thing of the past. I think motivating and encouraging beautiful handwriting is a good thing. There are lots of benefits of cursive writing.

Give it 10 years. I'm sure it'll be dropped / neglected like the other arts. Beautiful handwriting will be for the rich independent school children.

Fifthtimelucky · 05/03/2022 12:17

I think good handwriting is still important. It's much easier - and much less strain on the hand - to write quickly using what I still prefer to think of 'joined up writing'.

I therefore don't have a problem with the expectation (in England) that children with use joined up writing, or that schools will need to try to ensure that by the end of key stage 2 their pupils meet the expected standard.

I can't see any necessity for a pen licence though. There must be more effective and less divisive ways of encouraging children to improve their handwriting.

twominutesmore · 05/03/2022 13:49

@Getmeoutaherenow

I remember this and the distress it caused - teachers want to turn everything into a bloody competition with other kids, it's so unhealthy.
Well quite a lot of teachers in this thread, including me, hate them.
Ihopeyourcakeisshit · 05/03/2022 13:53

@fizzypop100

Hated the thing. Every Friday was whole school assembly. They would make a big deal of bringing out a pen license on a cushion to any children who passed. My DS could never get one with his SEN that affected his handwriting. Just awful
Bloody Hell! That's awful.
twominutesmore · 05/03/2022 13:56

I'd genuinely love some ideas on how this could be done differently, ideas that I can take to my Head.

There are some children who can't effectively use a pen yet - legible in pencil but not in pen, many errors and crossing out, get upset if cant erase mistakes, smudge their work.

How do we allow some children to use a pen but not others? Without it being hard on the ones who can't.

CallyfromBlakes7 · 05/03/2022 13:57

My ds who definitely wasn't ahead on physical skills was the first in his year to get his pen licence.

The reason was he was obsessed with football and imagined his own leagues and spent hours and hours and hours writing out his own football leagues and teams and results! It also meant he had heard of fairly obscure (to primary aged kids in the south of England) places such as Alloa and Arbroath.

So his handwriting was better than his peers. For a few weeks, anyway.

I don't think that it is any more discriminatory than (staff) choosing the kids who are better at sport for teams or music for concerts or artwork to put on the school walls for parents' evenings.

CallyfromBlakes7 · 05/03/2022 14:00

Bizarre and outdated expectations especially in a world where as adults we write everything on devices for the most part

Exams are still done by hand though aren't they. But maybe they won't be for current infant school aged kids. University exams seem to be online now.

CallyfromBlakes7 · 05/03/2022 14:01

Handwriting is just writing. As long as it’s legible and neat that should be enough. It’s what you write not what it looks like

But that's all it was. DS had the neatest, most legible writing so he got his pen licence. The others soon caught up. It was nothing to do with being calligraphic (if that is a word!)

nothingcomestonothing · 05/03/2022 14:17

Urgh I hated this with DD, they were made to go and demonstrate their writing to the head before being awarded the pen licence. DD was told she was 'really really close' umpteen times for two academic years. By the start of year 6 I'd had enough, went to the head and asked what exactly she needed to do to get the sodding thing, as being told she was almost there but not quite for so long was destroying her confidence. She got one that week.

MajesticElephant · 05/03/2022 14:21

@sunflower1988

Primary teacher - blame Michael Gove (I like to for everything) as part of his curriculum 'reforms' he made it an expectation that pupils would be able to write in cursive, therefore schools have to encourage it ( my school made it a requirement that teachers would write in cursive and displays would be) Obviously no thought to the fact it actively disadvantages children with a SEN, fine motor skill issues, dyslexia ect... Why would they matter Angry
I’m not sure why we are blaming Gove? Both cursive writing for SATs and pen licences were a thing when I was at primary school over 25 years ago…
Crunchymum · 05/03/2022 14:31

Oldest DC is Y4. They all use pen.

Surely this is the easiest and fairest way?

Hearditintheplay · 11/03/2022 21:31

I realise this thread is a week old but I just had to comment after spending most of this evening comforting my DC who was absolutely devastated not to get a pen license today Sad

They are now one of the only ones in their class not to have one (despite handwriting being fine as far as I can tell) and are dreading Monday when they will be surrounded by peers using pens and will feel ‘left out’.

Analogies with sports days are completely inappropriate as this is something that impacts everyday learning and marks some pupils out as inadequate by this standard. I think I am going to speak to the school about it, not that I’m expecting it to change but I feel so strongly that it’s wrong - competitive, exclusionary and doesn’t seem to have much to do with education!

twominutesmore · 12/03/2022 07:35

Have you thought about finding out what the school's requirements are for a child to use a pen and then helping your child to practise at home?

In my school they need to be writing legibly and without the need to rub out a lot. If a child needs to rub out every third word, then they are better using a pencil.

I periodically give the whole class a pen to see if they rise to the challenge but if their work is illegible due to crossing out then it's better for them to have a pencil I think.

I would be open to suggestions for how else I could do it though. I posted earlier on the thread. No teacher wants to be responsible for children feeling disappointed.

Hearditintheplay · 12/03/2022 08:37

Hi @twominutesmore thank you for this - I am definitely going to speak to the teacher about what is required. I am not a teacher (or an objective judge!) but DC’s writing honestly looks fine to me - neat and well formed - so it would be good to know what the reasons are. I think it might be something to do with not joining up consistently?

And yes I would like to help them at home - are there any handwriting books you’d recommend by any chance?

In terms of how else you could do it, there seem to be other examples on this thread - just not having pen licenses seems the most obvious, so it’s not made into a big ceremony/prize. Or all kids are just given a pen eg at the beginning of year 5...

HikingforScenery · 12/03/2022 08:53

I agree with you OP.

mumof2exhausted · 12/03/2022 08:54

@Hearditintheplay

Hi *@twominutesmore* thank you for this - I am definitely going to speak to the teacher about what is required. I am not a teacher (or an objective judge!) but DC’s writing honestly looks fine to me - neat and well formed - so it would be good to know what the reasons are. I think it might be something to do with not joining up consistently?

And yes I would like to help them at home - are there any handwriting books you’d recommend by any chance?

In terms of how else you could do it, there seem to be other examples on this thread - just not having pen licenses seems the most obvious, so it’s not made into a big ceremony/prize. Or all kids are just given a pen eg at the beginning of year 5...

I spoke to his teacher last week - explained he was getting genuinely upset and totally demoralised…. He got his pen licence thus week.

He’s already said “wow writing joined up with a pen is so much easier as he doesn’t have to press down”.

Also you can buy pens with erasers. They are brilliant.

OP posts:
twominutesmore · 12/03/2022 08:54

Yes I think it's awful when schools hand out licences too. Much better to quietly tell a child that they can use pen from now on. Unfortunately, the recipients are often so proud that it does become a bigger deal than the teacher might want.

I wouldn't want to recommend a book to you in case it was the wrong one for your school, but then I don't think you actually need to spend any money. Ask the school for a sheet showing their preferred handwriting style - they'll easily be able to do this, and then you need only practise the letter formation and joins. If they use specific handwriting workbooks, ask if you can have one or offer to buy one from them (I've given these to parents before now).

Yes lots of people have said to give everyone a pen but it wouldn't work, it really wouldn't, and I am not in the game of making children sad. I have seen children writing 10x slower when using a pen, crossing out to the point their work is illegible, crying because they've made mistakes that are now permanent and can't be erased, letters so big they take up two or three lines on the page. Some children are, for now, doing better work with a pencil, whether they realise it or not.

The coolest kid in my class is the one who happily uses a pencil and loudly tells everyone they're mad to write in pen. He says they're always running out and you can't erase your writing. He does a hard sell on pencil that has obviously come from his mum.

twominutesmore · 12/03/2022 08:58

"Also you can buy pens with erasers. They are brilliant."

You can but schools can't afford them and not fair to have some children - the ones with interested parents who are happy and able to buy them - using them while others don't imo.

Also, parents are often keen to provide the original pen but less keen to keep up with replacements.

Also, quality varies and some children would come in with leaky rubbish ones.

I think it's right that schools provide the pen.

But I'm glad your dc now has his pen. He must have been very close for your complaint to have worked. I'm pleased he's happy. I hope he didn't celebrate too loudly and make anyone else feel sad.

mumof2exhausted · 12/03/2022 09:33

@twominutesmore

"Also you can buy pens with erasers. They are brilliant."

You can but schools can't afford them and not fair to have some children - the ones with interested parents who are happy and able to buy them - using them while others don't imo.

Also, parents are often keen to provide the original pen but less keen to keep up with replacements.

Also, quality varies and some children would come in with leaky rubbish ones.

I think it's right that schools provide the pen.

But I'm glad your dc now has his pen. He must have been very close for your complaint to have worked. I'm pleased he's happy. I hope he didn't celebrate too loudly and make anyone else feel sad.

He was thrilled. They give them out at celebration assembly (this is kind of my issue with it as I feel they make too much fuss). The “certificate “ is crumbled in his bag, he’s not bothered about it at all. He is just happy he gets to use a pen like his friends.

Everyone in his class uses the pens with erasers - he was the one who told me about them! I’ve bought the good ones in bulk from Amazon. Understand that they are not an affordable option for everyone but I’ve never heard of them before so was really impressed.

OP posts:
Swipe left for the next trending thread