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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

WIBU to email this to HR

31 replies

MattHancocksPrivateNurse · 01/03/2022 17:55

I’ll try to keep this short.

I was offered a 15 hour a week job, negotiated with manager which 2 set days they would be before accepting (I have 3 small kids and another job so had to fit around this)! All good- HR process started so references contacted, DBS sent etc.

I then receive an email from the manager saying due to the service she cannot guarantee me set days and I may have to work other days and that they hope I will still take the job. Obviously I can’t as I have another 7.5 hour job on a set day and children in various childcare settings on set days (nursery and oversubscribed after school club!). I’d have to put them all in full time nursery and after school club to manage to be flexible to work any day and financially this would be crazy on a 2 day a week salary.

I’m so annoyed. This wasn’t advertised that you’d be expected to work any shift pattern, most people who work part time surely have other responsibilities?! Kids, family care, other jobs etc. how can you work 2 days a week but be completely flexible? I read the company policy which is very pro flexible working but clearly it’s all lip service. The ridiculous thing it’s a specialist role and I was the only applicant so now they have no one rather than someone who could at least do 2 days.

I emailed HR saying I couldn’t take the job and reasons and also querying the flexible working policy and why it could not be applied here. I feel my time interviewing was wasted and now I’m going back to my work with my tail between my legs as my manager has just done a reference for this job I can no longer take.

WIBU?!

OP posts:
HangOnToYourself · 01/03/2022 17:58

I'd be so annoyed if I was you op

TheSnowyOwl · 01/03/2022 17:58

You’ve done it now, so surely it’s doesn’t matter? HR likely don’t have any day over the actual hours and days someone is needed for work.

TonkaTruckduck · 01/03/2022 18:04

Is it the NHS? Sounds typical 🙄

Original poster
MattHancocksPrivateNurse · 01/03/2022 18:04

@TheSnowyOwl yeah I suppose so- I don’t know I’d have thought the back track might have been HR led. The tone was rather ‘it’s out of my hands’ for the manager.

OP posts:
Original poster
MattHancocksPrivateNurse · 01/03/2022 18:04

@TonkaTruckduck you got it in one ✅

OP posts:
BulletTrain · 01/03/2022 18:09

Aha. I withdrew from an NHS job for the same reason. Lots of PT jobs, but none for anyone who has actual commitments meaning they need a part time job. Short-sighted is not the word.

TheSnowyOwl · 01/03/2022 18:12

[quote MattHancocksPrivateNurse]@TheSnowyOwl yeah I suppose so- I don’t know I’d have thought the back track might have been HR led. The tone was rather ‘it’s out of my hands’ for the manager.[/quote]
HR tend to be very much on the employer’s side which is often just as infuriating as the reason you go to them in the first place.

At least you didn’t leave your other job for this. Your current manager won’t think you have your tail between your legs and will probably just be glad to have you back.

Original poster
MattHancocksPrivateNurse · 01/03/2022 18:15

@BulletTrain it’s infuriating isn’t it. Flexible working policy published 2021 and it means nothing. Very few people work part time of the nhs because they’re just SO wealthy they’re sat at home the rest of the time 🙄.

OP posts:
TonkaTruckduck · 01/03/2022 18:28

They spend thousands to train us, but do absolutely nothing to retain us as out lives evolve and we become parents.
The staffing crisis is mostly down to bad management in my experience.

When I had very young children and requested set days I was declined, the expectation was I'd have 24/7 childcare for a year old baby, for a 22.5 hour contract. I went to the private sector

Original poster
MattHancocksPrivateNurse · 01/03/2022 18:34

Ah @TonkaTruckduck I so relate! I’d love to go back into practice but it’s so un family friendly. Given how many women of child bearing age work for the nhs you’d think they would realise how important it is to allow people to have that balance! Same here we have no family around and ultimately DH earns a lot more than me on a PT nurse salary so he can’t be running around collecting the kids at 3:15 at the drop of a hat. I felt like I was projecting my frustration but I thought I’d rather put it in writing to HR than just seethe!

OP posts:
NavigatingAdolescence · 01/03/2022 18:37

[quote MattHancocksPrivateNurse]@TheSnowyOwl yeah I suppose so- I don’t know I’d have thought the back track might have been HR led. The tone was rather ‘it’s out of my hands’ for the manager.[/quote]
Ah yes. Managers love to blame HR. Truth is it’s their decision. (NHS HR Director of many years.)

Beveren · 01/03/2022 18:38

NHS have some weird recruitment practices. I once applied for an admin post in our local hospital which wasn't ideal but offered a creche. It was after Mat leave when I'd decided not to go back to my previous job, and as I wasn't earning it was reasonably obvious that I needed to get a job without too much delay.

After acknowledging the application they did nothing for weeks, so I carried on responding to adverts and was offered and accepted a much better job elsewhere. When the hospital eventually got in touch with me they were most enthusiastic, and were astonished to discover they were too late. Apart from anything else, these poor practices are such a waste of their time and resources.

anotherneutralname · 01/03/2022 18:48

That is bananas. What I will say though, in agreement with PP, is that this will be the manager's decision. HR is there to advise managers about the legality, risks and consequences of the decisions the managers want to make, and the manager then makes the (hopefully) informed decision. Of course, when that decision involves a massive U turn, they tend to go with "sorry HR said no" rather than owning it.

I would guess HR asked the manager some questions about how fixed days will work with future candidates / team skill mix / setting a precedent, and the manager had a wobble. Sometimes when managers really like a candidate at interview, they get a bit carried away agreeing to all sorts, and then when things calm down they realise they can't make it work.

You may well no longer want to work for them, but I wouldn't be surprised if this is not dead yet as a negotiation.

Original poster
MattHancocksPrivateNurse · 01/03/2022 18:57

@anotherneutralname perhaps- I’ve emailed both the manager and HR essentially saying sorry it won’t work then and I’ve withdrawn my application. They haven’t responded but to be honest I don’t really want to sign up now in case things do change 18 months down the line and I’d have to go to changing shifts as I’d have to find another job.

OP posts:
topcat2014 · 01/03/2022 18:58

As a manager who wouldn't want a pool of staff working 20 hours each who could be moved around on a whim. So, yes, it will be a managers decision.

Original poster
MattHancocksPrivateNurse · 01/03/2022 19:06

@topcat2014 I do completely understand that and if there were an abundance of applicants and suitable people to hire I do get that. However a) there isn’t/wasn’t and b) that is part of the reason women with children are left behind in the workplace. It’s hard as I see the managers POV.

OP posts:
Taswama · 01/03/2022 19:11

Well done for clearly explaining your reasons to both the manager and HR.

Taswama · 01/03/2022 19:17

The zero hours contract culture does not work when there is a shortage of staff, but employers don't seem to have worked that out yet.

WouldIBeATwat · 01/03/2022 19:37

[quote MattHancocksPrivateNurse]@topcat2014 I do completely understand that and if there were an abundance of applicants and suitable people to hire I do get that. However a) there isn’t/wasn’t and b) that is part of the reason women with children are left behind in the workplace. It’s hard as I see the managers POV.[/quote]
Funny how men aren’t so affected, isn’t it. (Not really. Angry)

Original poster
MattHancocksPrivateNurse · 01/03/2022 19:46

@WouldIBeATwat yep. DH has been great and said we can make it work etc but we just can’t. I’m not leaving my other job and being at the beck and call of a clinic and making 4 other people fit in around my working hours its not fair.

OP posts:
A580Hojas · 01/03/2022 19:46

I'm not sure what your AIBU is, but of course yanbu to not take a job that doesn't fit in with your other work and childcare. How annoying for you! Your time was definitely wasted.

WouldIBeATwat · 01/03/2022 19:52

I meant more that men rarely have to even think about childcare, never mind have it impact their careers/ability to work the hours needed.

Original poster
MattHancocksPrivateNurse · 01/03/2022 19:57

No I completely know what you meant @WouldIBeATwat and that is very true. I think even if you are employed full time it’s fair enough to expect a bit of flexibility (I used to work full time and did a mix of early and late shifts which changed week to week) but because you’re full time you generally have childcare in place and a higher salary that funds that.

OP posts:
WouldIBeATwat · 01/03/2022 21:29

I’ve never worked part time since going back to work after DD was born. DH earned a bit more than me then, but his work is stable and I’ve caught up and passed him now. He used to be travelling here there and everywhere but now he’s home with DD more and I’m the one gadding about. I’m also the one with the pensions, so he will become more reliant on me as the years go on. Society is flawed, it was important to me to acknowledge that and fight against it.

balalake · 01/03/2022 21:50

I'd have gone back and said that I had agreed to working certain days.