To not see the point of butterfly? (Swimming)

[Aroundtheworldin80moves]

Slight frustration as the only thing holding DD back from moving up a level at swimming is her butterfly legs. Elder DD is on the lesson above (stage 5) and has had children move into her group barely able to swim a width in any stroke. Meanwhile DD is in level below able to do proper breaststroke, front crawl and backstroke. But her butterfly legs are a bit messy.

But what is the point of butterfly? Front crawl is fast. Breaststroke has it uses for people who can't go underwater and is calm. Backstroke has uses for when you get in trouble.

Neither child will be going into Club swimming... unfortunately Covid has put paid to any chance of that as they are too old now really.

My views might be slightly effected by being a former Club swimmer who didn't do butterfly after breaking my arm leaving it with a slight weakness... I could do the others fine.

So.. is there a use for the Butterfly stroke outside of competitive swimming?

As above, my kids have no interest in competing or gaining qualifications in swimming, just in enjoying the water safely. They learnt to do this through regularly going to the pool and having fun
The "swimming is a lifeskill" rhetoric is just a way of blackmailing parents into thinking they have to spend a fortune on lessons.

@thebellagio

So, genuine question, why is it taught so young and why is there so much emphasis on it to the detriment of children enjoying swimming and wanting to continue? Other than British Swimming wanting to remain competitive, surely it's better to have children carry on swimming than being forced to stop because they can't progress because of this specific stroke?

Genuinely I think it's to keep kids in swimming lessons longer. If I had my time over I'd skip all the 30 min once a week lessons for several years, save up when they were little, and blitz it with private lessons when they're a bit older. Apart from our time and money, it's less onerous on the kids.

Butterfly could quite happily be introduced at a much later stage or saved for club level.

@LairyMaclary

Former elite competitive swimmer, and no, outside of competition there is very little point in butterfly.

Except perhaps for clearing out a lane in a public session and making yourself unpopular.

It was useful to me once when I got into trouble in the sea. It was very choppy that day and I shouldn't have gone in, or at least I should have spotted my exit point better. Because I had been fine going in and doing a front crawl once away from the breaking waves, stupidly, I attempted to exit out the middle of the bay where the waves were highest.

I then got trapped in the waves, being thrown up and down, not able to make progress. My heart rate shot up and I have honestly never been so near to having a heart attack. I was under the water most of the time. It was only doing a very strong butterfly kick and determinedly keeping it up as well as doing the same motion I do in fly to come out of the kick only phase that got me out of there. I was just about panicking, and remember consciously telling myself not to panic and to use the energy I had left to get myself out of there in the most powerful way possible.

I then lay on the beach with my heart pounding for the next 10 minutes. I had sand driven up into places where sand does not belong and spent the next 2 days picking it out.

Do not do this ever. Take it as an example of what I did wrong. Its really easy to drown and it can happen quite quickly. But fly is a really strong stroke for a short duration of time, that can power you through choppy water.

@CognitiveDissolver yes, I have also found butterfly to be useful in open water. Nothing as scary as what you experienced, luckily for me.

I still think it's daft that so much time is spent on it in lessons at such an early stage. You would have to be a pretty strong swimmer with a good command of the stroke for butterfly to be useful to you in the kind of capacity you describe, and I think it's a shame a lot of children are being put off continued participation in the sport because they aren't ready to progress in one niche stroke.

The main use of butterfly is to ensure nobody gets in the same lane as you in a swimming pool.

🤣🤣🤣

Tbh this is the reason my kids never did swimming lessons. They can all swim competently by my standards (ie easily swim 25 metres, enjoy the pool with friends, dive down and touch the bottom etc). But they don't swim with correct technique because i literally don't are about that.

Nothing to do with this thread, or butterfly, but the advantage of doing the correct technique for strokes is that you use far less energy, and can swim a LOT further with very little effort - which can be a life saver in circumstances when it is needed. I am a competent swimmer by your measure, but I wouldn't put money on my swimming being enough if I got into trouble in the sea / a river etc., whereas I would back my dc who were lucky enough to be taught proper technique from when they started lessons at 4.

A flat fee per stage would give more incentive for progress through the stages. A year on a stage is too much. One centre seemed to not mark anything off,then with groups of 12 it takes weeks to cycle back to what you need to tick off

Apart from keeping others out of the pool or competitive swimming, I cannot think of one.

Some of these replies have given me a laugh.
I've crossed everything and prayed to every known diety that she gets a chance to demonstrate the butterfly legs at her next lesson and move onto the next stage.

Its also a really fast stroke and keeps your head out of the water and your field of vision clear, which means it can be useful for ocean swimming, and for entering and leaving the sea. Its very easy to breathe

I am clearly doing something very very wrong when it comes to butterfly because I say I would be very good at it if I didn't need to breathe - as far as I knew your head did go underwater when doing it?

I think it should be taught but it should not hold kids back from passing up the levels. When my ds was learning his swim school didn't seem to be too strict about it so he was able to progress through to stage 10 and beyond. It would seem a bit silly to keep a really competent freestyle/breasttroke swimmer at level 5 because they can't do butterfly. Butterfly kick is a different issue, but you only need it for turns.

@CallyfromBlakes7

Its also a really fast stroke and keeps your head out of the water and your field of vision clear, which means it can be useful for ocean swimming, and for entering and leaving the sea. Its very easy to breathe

I am clearly doing something very very wrong when it comes to butterfly because I say I would be very good at it if I didn't need to breathe - as far as I knew your head did go underwater when doing it?

I think it should be taught but it should not hold kids back from passing up the levels. When my ds was learning his swim school didn't seem to be too strict about it so he was able to progress through to stage 10 and beyond. It would seem a bit silly to keep a really competent freestyle/breasttroke swimmer at level 5 because they can't do butterfly. Butterfly kick is a different issue, but you only need it for turns.

I didn't explain it too well but your head is out of the water when you breath, and its an easy stroke to get the breathing timing in.

I fully accept that I'm an anomaly when it comes to butterfly; its my favourite stroke and I've never found it difficult. I found front crawl much harder to learn and I hate breaststroke! But I could do butterfly just from watching it on tv, unfortunately I wasn't a competitive swimmer as a child and only became sort of-on-the-tails-of-masters-level-competent for triathlon. My fly is way better than my front crawl, and I often do 10 or 12 lengths, in sets of 50.

I didn't explain it too well but your head is out of the water when you breath

As with all strokes?

I am clearly doing something very very wrong when it comes to butterfly because I say I would be very good at it if I didn't need to breathe

I'm the same, I can do an excellent 25m only breathing every 3rd stroke, but to go further I need to breathe more often and then my stroke goes to pot.

@merrymouse

I didn't explain it too well but your head is out of the water when you breath

As with all strokes?

Yes, but in fly you're looking forwards when you breathe.

Some people breathe to the side.

What I don’t understand then is why there is such a focus on it in the early stages? I’ve never met a parent that wished their 5yo was doing more butterfly. Surely the kids would have a bit more chance once they’re in the later stages and a bit older?

I find it so bizarre that 25m and proper front crawl breathing doesn’t appear until stage 6 but to get out of stage 4 you need 10m of butterfly kick.

Sounds a weird set up. Mine were all swimming multiple lengths and had done personal survival before touching butterfly when they did their badges.