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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

WWYD? We're landlords

192 replies

Woahthehorsey · 24/02/2022 20:20

To stop the derailing of another thread, I thought I would post separately.

DH and his brother inherited a house a few years ago. The plan was to sell it, split the funds and go separate ways. SIL was living in the house (she had been relatives carer, had inherited savings from relative and planned to buy so was staying whilst she bought).

BIL dragged his feet during the sale until it turned out that he'd got a secured loan on the property which he was now defaulting on and the house was going to be repossessed. The sale couldn't go through until the loan was repaid - because it wasn't a mortgage, it couldn't be repaid following the sale, and had to be repaid prior.

During this time SIL was diagnosed with cancer, which was terminal and she was unable to buy her house. To prevent DSIL needing to move out on her death bed, DH and I secured a mortgage and repaid BILs loan. BIL retained 50% ownership due to the legalities. It was a residential mortgage with permission to let because a family member was living in it. We were really really lucky to get the mortgage as the house is "non-standard construction".

DSIL died and we prepared to sell the house. Because the house is no standard, it's virtually unmortgagable (not completely so, but so much so it's really difficult) so is worth about half a brick built house it. Because of this, BIL realised he wouldn't get any money from the sale, as it wouldn't fully repay the mortgage so has refused to allow the sale. We're currently seeking legal advice, covid delayed it.

To repay the mortgage we got tenants in. BIL has legal rights to some of the rent, which he takes. The rent doesn't cover the mortgage and we also pay tax on it. We lose about £200 per month, which has been manageable so far.

Due to the mortgage situation and the construction we can't remortgage and the initial rate has expired and we are on a variable rate. This has now increased due to inflation/ all that shit and we're now losing between £300-400 per month. This is unsustainable. It's putting us financially in a really difficult place. We have a good income but high housing costs plus 2 kids in childcare. Much more and we're going to start getting in debt.

On the other thread I've been called some awful names for considering putting the rent up, but I don't see another option. Currently the rent is low for the area and rents generally have recently gone up in the area. We've not put the rent up in the 2.5years they've been there.

Options as we see it:

  1. put rent up more inline with local rents. Tenant keeps tenancy, we don't go further in to debt. Continue the legal route with BIL.
  2. evict tenants, pay full mortgage ourselves for a bit and hope loss of income encourages DBIL to sell.
  3. increase mortgage on our house, buy BIL out at half current value, evict tenant, sell ASAP. We've tried to do this before but couldn't raise enough, we've had payrises since though.
  4. default on mortgage, let property be repossessed, let bank kick tenants out.
  5. (Poster on other threads preferred option) continue to lose money on the house but keep the rent low, risk getting in to very very significant debt, risk our own house/ security of our children.

Final option is evict tenants, get self build mortgage, raze property, build new house, sell. BIL wants to do this but we can't afford it and BIL is unable to get a mortgage. So it's a none starter.

So which option would you do?

OP posts:
FawnFrenchieMum · 24/02/2022 21:31

Don’t default if you can avoid it at all. It will effect your ability to remortgage your own property in future and effect any form or lending you ever need again in the future.

NumberTheory · 24/02/2022 21:33

I doesn't sound like you really want to be a landlord, so I would probably try 3 if possible. Sounds like the quickest way out of a difficult and risky situation.

If 3 turns out not to be possible, if you aren't already, I would speed up the legal pursuit of BiL as much as possible. In the meantime I would put the rent up to a reasonable market rate but with due regard to the advantage of keeping a good sitting tenant (changing tenants can be expensive). I would be doing this if I were the landlord anyway even without a mortgage/nightmare BiL to be worried about. You're renting out a property not running a housing charity. Make a sensible decision about rent based on the market and the value of your sitting tenant. Don't just let things continue running along without change.

TatianaBis · 24/02/2022 21:35
LittleOwl153 · 24/02/2022 21:36

You are going to have to put the rent up. I would put it up as much as you can to keep within the local area rents and maybe see if you can set up a fund for maintenance from the increase if there is leway.

I do hope that the loan/mortgage thing is properly set up with all the paperwork to enable you to take it to court as I think that is where you will end up - Although I suspect if you can find a way to pin the loan back on to him and make it payable then he will declare bankruptcy so you will be no better off.

Pollyforever · 24/02/2022 21:36

Can't you withhold his rent?

Shamoo · 24/02/2022 21:39

Well what I would do is (a) put the rent up to market levels, or thereabouts; (b) stop paying any of the rent to BIL immediately, and say you are holding it until the legal matter has been resolved - I don’t care if he is legally entitled to half, you are clearly legally entitled to thousands from him so he is not going to be able to sue you just for the rent without the rest of the issue being dealt with as you would just countersue; (c) make a without prejudice offer to BIL to pay him £x in a lump sum to sign the property over by a certain date, with a clear commitment that if he doesn’t do it by a certain date you will hand the property back to the bank and he will get nothing.

Force his hand. And mean it.

JustLyra · 24/02/2022 21:39

Why are the legal options taking so much time?

Just take it to court for a order of sale instead of negotiating with an arsehole.

fruitbrewhaha · 24/02/2022 21:43

This is such an awful position OP. How was able to borrow against the house when it's only half his? I bet you're wishing when that came to light you just told him to fuck off.

Put the rent up and for goodness sack stop passing on his half of the rent. Keep it, what's he going to do.

Sally872 · 24/02/2022 21:44

Get all the rent paid to you and let him chase you through the courts for it. He won't be able to afford to.

worriedatthemoment · 24/02/2022 21:47

Could you advise him you plan to sell Ans he gets his share plus loan deducted or else you will just hand in the keys and no one gets anything
Im not sure how he managed to secure a lOan on a house though that wasn't solely in just his name and why he gets half the rent before costs etc, surely he only gets half profits from the rent so minus any expenses incurred

bellac11 · 24/02/2022 21:48

What would be the actual damage if you defaulted?

Id be tempted to leave the whole mess alone

SarahProblem · 24/02/2022 21:50

If the property is in another country why does it matter if you default?

Also what is stopping you from witholding rent to BIL?

WhatsitWiggle · 24/02/2022 21:51

How is the rent paid, all to your DH? If so, I'd be keeping it (after putting up the rent to market rates - you're not a charity) and covering all costs. Let BIL go down the legal route to claim his share.

FairyCakeWings · 24/02/2022 21:52

If putting the rent up will put it in line with local rates and you’re losing money on the place at the money, you’re crazy not to have done it already.

mummykel16 · 24/02/2022 21:53

@Woahthehorsey

To stop the derailing of another thread, I thought I would post separately.

DH and his brother inherited a house a few years ago. The plan was to sell it, split the funds and go separate ways. SIL was living in the house (she had been relatives carer, had inherited savings from relative and planned to buy so was staying whilst she bought).

BIL dragged his feet during the sale until it turned out that he'd got a secured loan on the property which he was now defaulting on and the house was going to be repossessed. The sale couldn't go through until the loan was repaid - because it wasn't a mortgage, it couldn't be repaid following the sale, and had to be repaid prior.

During this time SIL was diagnosed with cancer, which was terminal and she was unable to buy her house. To prevent DSIL needing to move out on her death bed, DH and I secured a mortgage and repaid BILs loan. BIL retained 50% ownership due to the legalities. It was a residential mortgage with permission to let because a family member was living in it. We were really really lucky to get the mortgage as the house is "non-standard construction".

DSIL died and we prepared to sell the house. Because the house is no standard, it's virtually unmortgagable (not completely so, but so much so it's really difficult) so is worth about half a brick built house it. Because of this, BIL realised he wouldn't get any money from the sale, as it wouldn't fully repay the mortgage so has refused to allow the sale. We're currently seeking legal advice, covid delayed it.

To repay the mortgage we got tenants in. BIL has legal rights to some of the rent, which he takes. The rent doesn't cover the mortgage and we also pay tax on it. We lose about £200 per month, which has been manageable so far.

Due to the mortgage situation and the construction we can't remortgage and the initial rate has expired and we are on a variable rate. This has now increased due to inflation/ all that shit and we're now losing between £300-400 per month. This is unsustainable. It's putting us financially in a really difficult place. We have a good income but high housing costs plus 2 kids in childcare. Much more and we're going to start getting in debt.

On the other thread I've been called some awful names for considering putting the rent up, but I don't see another option. Currently the rent is low for the area and rents generally have recently gone up in the area. We've not put the rent up in the 2.5years they've been there.

Options as we see it:

  1. put rent up more inline with local rents. Tenant keeps tenancy, we don't go further in to debt. Continue the legal route with BIL.
  2. evict tenants, pay full mortgage ourselves for a bit and hope loss of income encourages DBIL to sell.
  3. increase mortgage on our house, buy BIL out at half current value, evict tenant, sell ASAP. We've tried to do this before but couldn't raise enough, we've had payrises since though.
  4. default on mortgage, let property be repossessed, let bank kick tenants out.
  5. (Poster on other threads preferred option) continue to lose money on the house but keep the rent low, risk getting in to very very significant debt, risk our own house/ security of our children.

Final option is evict tenants, get self build mortgage, raze property, build new house, sell. BIL wants to do this but we can't afford it and BIL is unable to get a mortgage. So it's a none starter.

So which option would you do?

Sorry to say the final option, leave bil in house when you raze it
SueblueNZ · 24/02/2022 21:57

@SarahProblem
The OP said a different county, not country.
Put the rent up and immediately stop paying him any of the rent.
If the tenants pay half into each of your bank accounts, DH as landlord can instruct them to change the arrangement.
I would be acting in a manner that most inconveniences/disadvantages the BIL so that he might try to take legal action; it seems he wouldn't have a leg to stand on while he is not contributing to your loan payments.
I am stunned that it seems there was no written repayment agreement entered into when you and DH bailed him out.

Bideyinn · 24/02/2022 21:59

That is a complete nightmare, how awful for you. Increase rent would be my choice but I hope you get a proper solution soon

AllOfUsAreDead · 24/02/2022 22:02

I'd tell bil he either starts helping to pay the mortgage or both sides lose the house by defaulting on mortgage. I would not in any way let him win, he's been a shit through this whole thing.

NorthSouthcatlady · 24/02/2022 22:07

1 or 2. Definitely not 5. Why should you be a martyr? People love to browbeat landlords. Your BIL sounds like a total dick head

FinnulaFloss · 24/02/2022 22:08

BIL dragged his feet during the sale until it turned out that he'd got a secured loan on the property which he was now defaulting on and the house was going to be repossessed

So you voluntarily took out a mortgage to pay off a fraudulent loan?

Your BIL couldn't have secured debt on a property you own half out without your agreement. Either your BIL took it out fraudulently (in which case a robust complaint would likely have seen the secured charge removed) or you're not being entirely truthful in the events that had led you here.

Rewritethestars1 · 24/02/2022 22:11

Increase the rent and don't give bil another penny. Let him take you to court. He hasn't even paid his solicitor so its unlikely to happen quickly, gives you time to sort this mess out.

readsalotgirl63 · 24/02/2022 22:13

Options 1 or 3 but second witholding bils share of the rent. My sympathies.

bouncydog · 24/02/2022 22:14

I would keep all of the rent and let BIL take you to Court. I wouldn’t give him another penny.

JeremyBeadlesTinyHand · 24/02/2022 22:17

Could you not sell with the tenants in situ?

I would be trying to get rid asap. What if the tenants are unable to pay the rent due to job loss or illness? Get some legal advice and see what can be done to force through a sale without having to negotiate with the BIL. Take the records of all costs incurred and money already paid to BIL and the initial amount of the loan paid off.

Rewritethestars1 · 24/02/2022 22:18

I'm a bit baffled by this actually. How your so far into this mess is crazy. I get you were trying to help sil out and its lovely but in doing so you have sunk your whole family into huge debt. Why did sil not inherit part of the house if she was live in carer. Who's sister is it? Is it bil ex? Then you paid a loan back that bil likely took out fraudulently? Maybe you should look at a change of solicitors because sounds like the legal advice you have been given is not great.

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