To ask what it's like working in the civil service?

[RetrainRetrain]

I don't know how much it varies by department (?) but I'm thinking about ONS or HMRC. I'm just wondering about morale, conditions, sense of future direction etc. Also, I see jobs advertised externally but wonder if they are really open to outsiders or if you'd actually need internal experience to know enough of the context to get through interview / hit the ground running
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It really does vary hugely, the CS is vast (nearly half a million employees total) and really each department/body has its own unique 'feel', culture, ways of working etc. I haven't worked in either of the two you mention but I would expect them to be quite different from each other, ONS is small-ish in CS terms (I think about 5,000 employees) and quite specialist in terms of what they do whereas HMRC is one of the biggest and most operational so is probably more bureaucratic and controlled but probably has more opportunities because of the scale (although like I say have never worked in either). I expect it feels quite different also if you are 'front-line' staff at HMRC answering phones etc compared to if you are say in a corporate IT or finance job or if you are a senior specialist in a niche area of tax or policy or whatever. Also are you looking at HQ roles or a regional office as this can make a big difference too? To make some very big sweeping generalisations I would say the CS is a good place to work, like anywhere you get a range of personalities from really driven ambitious types to haggard 'old-timers' that like to moan a lot to lazy/incompetent/bitchy people and everywhere in between (CS does have a fairly high tolerance for bad performance and a reluctance to sack people that have been there a long time which you can interpret positively or negatively depending on outlook). Generally you need to be comfortable operating in an environment where 'efficiencies' are always being sought which can result in frequent changes and restructures particularly at the top level, plus a politicised environment where a new minister or government can come in and want to change everything their predecessor has done or make sudden sweeping changes which you may not agree with personally but you have to get on with (not without complaining of course because classically civil servants love a moan, the whole British public sector is fuelled on tea and complaints IMO ). Equally and conversely, because of the size and 'red tape' of the organisation(s) it can be achingly, frustratingly slow to make small 'on the ground' changes, even to very obvious and easy things, so you do need patience and resilience there.

Re 'are they really open to outsiders' I would say if it's been advertised externally, I would always assume yes. It's perfectly possible and sometimes even encouraged to advertise jobs internally only within most CS departments and internal progression is common, so if they already had someone in mind internally they wouldn't normally need to go through the hassle of an external 'fair and open' process (and believe me CS make it a hassle, there are very rigid recruitment processes to follow and lots of paperwork). Of course there's always odd situations where the outcome is a given but there's no way of predicting that really so unless you have actual reason to believe that and you have the skills and experience they ask for on their advert/person specification I would go for it! Good luck

Most CS interviews are chiefly based on demonstrating behaviours and strengths rather than specialised knowledge and experience so yes, external candidates can absolutely get through. There’s lots of info online about the CS behaviour profiles so if you’re well prepared and understand what’s being tested you shouldn’t be disadvantaged.

HMRC is massive so it’s very difficult to generalise about it as a place to work. Recent pay and contract reforms mean that the majority of staff are working from home two days a week and from the office three days; depending on your business area there may be some flexibility around this but they are keen to go back to being a more office based organisation post lockdown.

CS does have a fairly high tolerance for bad performance and a reluctance to sack people

As someone who works alongside CS but is not CS, this is the most infuriating thing about them. Practically untouchable, so if you want a job for life, work for the CS.

Lol - both my husband and I have acted as decision managers in cases where individuals have been sacked from the CS so it does happen, honest!

Can't speak for those departments but I recently oversaw a recruitment round for HEOs and SEOs in my department and none of the successful candidates were existing civil servants.

That's amazingly helpful, thank you! It's so difficult to get a sense of places from the outside.
I have been looking at the behaviour profiles and need to do a few tests when I get half a day off.