Advice on this meeting

[Quirkyme]

Hello,

I've had to arrange a meeting with my manager's line manager, due to a particular individual not following processes, and doing their job properly, and it having a HUGE impact on my ability to do my role, and also on the service user group.

I've spoken with management about this multiple times, and tbh I can't keep doing this and having the same pattern recur.

I'm near the end of my tether! Well I'm there already actually.
It's consistently getting worse .

I wondered if anyone had any advice for this meeting , maybe you've been in a similar position before?

Take hardcopy evidence with you showing every instance & every consequence/balls up that resulted. Be prepared for them to spin the line that the person 'needs support & mentoring' which in reality means they might get the odd spot check off the manager from now on, but won't be disciplined until something ultra bad hits the fan & a cluster fuck results that makes everyone look bad. Take your own notes in the meeting, which you send to those who attended afterward, so there's no "that wasn't what was said/agreed/done". Employers are often spineless at getting rid of those who are shit &/or can't be arsed at their job.

@CSIblonde

Take hardcopy evidence with you showing every instance & every consequence/balls up that resulted. Be prepared for them to spin the line that the person 'needs support & mentoring' which in reality means they might get the odd spot check off the manager from now on, but won't be disciplined until something ultra bad hits the fan & a cluster fuck results that makes everyone look bad. Take your own notes in the meeting, which you send to those who attended afterward, so there's no "that wasn't what was said/agreed/done". Employers are often spineless at getting rid of those who are shit &/or can't be arsed at their job.

Evening - the meeting is via Teams so should I suggest showing what I can on screen? It'll be hard enough telling this manager ALL that's happened - they're also not directly in the field so I'm also going to have to explain and give background context etc but I guess I can have all the info ready so it's easy to access to share on screen?

I think you're right - this person NEEDS to be put on a Performance Plan - why and how they've not been already with what they're doing or NOT doing is truly beyond me. It's shocking and risky .

I had a situation like this once. Be very careful. Be entirely factual, don’t embellish, don’t give an opinion unless asked, definitely avoid saying they should be on a performance plan. If what you are reporting could lead to dismissal, or open the company up to a liability of some kind, it is a very serious situation. You are right to report it.

Be clear what you want to happen next. Will you still be comfortable working with this manager? How will Line Manger 2 handle it; if they confront your Line Manager with your evidence will it identify you as the person who reported it? That could make your life very difficult.

In the situation I was in, I was vulnerable; a semi-senior only employed at my company for 2.5 years. My line manager’s negligence could have cost the company a heck of a lot of money and damage to reputation. I wasn’t the only member of staff who felt morally obliged to cover his arse. He wasn’t a bad guy, but hopeless and lazy and disorganised and wasn’t honest about how in-over-his-head he was. Eventually after he faked some work he was supposed to have done, but hadn’t, I reported it to a senior manager and said, I would work with him but not for him and I wanted a new line manager. I was referred to HR who were appalling, they did an interview where I was made to feel like a naughty schoolgirl telling tales, then gave me a new line manager…. It was my old line manager’s best friend. The situation was appalling; he knew what I “had done” and made my life hell. My career was held back.
I managed to transfer to a different department after six months, so glad I didn’t get stuck in that awful mess. Nothing was done, as far as I could see, about my old manager. A year later I felt so disillusioned I left.

Two years later, a more senior colleague discovered my old line manager had been fraudulently creating documents. He was encouraged to leave immediately to avoid a fuss; it was all hushed up to save the company’s face, and he went on to get a similar job on a different firm.

What did I learn? Be careful if you want to blow a whistle, because sometimes it just calls trouble in your direction. You may expect thanks; you may expect a solution; but you may find your life becomes immeasurably worse at work.

@LollyLol

I had a situation like this once. Be very careful. Be entirely factual, don’t embellish, don’t give an opinion unless asked, definitely avoid saying they should be on a performance plan. If what you are reporting could lead to dismissal, or open the company up to a liability of some kind, it is a very serious situation. You are right to report it.

Be clear what you want to happen next. Will you still be comfortable working with this manager? How will Line Manger 2 handle it; if they confront your Line Manager with your evidence will it identify you as the person who reported it? That could make your life very difficult.

In the situation I was in, I was vulnerable; a semi-senior only employed at my company for 2.5 years. My line manager’s negligence could have cost the company a heck of a lot of money and damage to reputation. I wasn’t the only member of staff who felt morally obliged to cover his arse. He wasn’t a bad guy, but hopeless and lazy and disorganised and wasn’t honest about how in-over-his-head he was. Eventually after he faked some work he was supposed to have done, but hadn’t, I reported it to a senior manager and said, I would work with him but not for him and I wanted a new line manager. I was referred to HR who were appalling, they did an interview where I was made to feel like a naughty schoolgirl telling tales, then gave me a new line manager…. It was my old line manager’s best friend. The situation was appalling; he knew what I “had done” and made my life hell. My career was held back.
I managed to transfer to a different department after six months, so glad I didn’t get stuck in that awful mess. Nothing was done, as far as I could see, about my old manager. A year later I felt so disillusioned I left.

Two years later, a more senior colleague discovered my old line manager had been fraudulently creating documents. He was encouraged to leave immediately to avoid a fuss; it was all hushed up to save the company’s face, and he went on to get a similar job on a different firm.

What did I learn? Be careful if you want to blow a whistle, because sometimes it just calls trouble in your direction. You may expect thanks; you may expect a solution; but you may find your life becomes immeasurably worse at work.

Gotcha.

Well the issue isn't about my manager - although indirectly there is some responsibility he has for this as he is the manager of the team after all and I have brought it to his attention multiple times.

But it's more about my colleague - I'm going to my line manager's manager because really the manager isn't doing enough to combat what is happening.

Of course, I'm not going to say that the colleague should go on a performance plan. However the issues raised are linked to her performance and are things she should be doing that time after time impact on my role and have quite serious consequences.