Reporting someone for admissions fraud

[LaTristesseDureraEntre]

NC for this.

I've reported someone for admissions fraud/ giving a false address. Someone in my social circle. They've used their old home address for school applications, but that home is now a holiday let (they still own it) and they've moved down the road to a cheaper area. I sent the LA some info and will let them draw their own conclusions. I did it partly because it affects me/my family (in the obvious way - child in the same school year, tight catchment for desirable school). But tbh I find their behaviour awful so I imagine I'd have been minded to do it anyway.

AIBU? I know on MN the normal response is "keep your beak out" but, really, would you have kept quiet?

And no, before anyone starts, no “Ooh maybe child has special needs / husband is polygamous / there’s a special underground tunnel linking the two properties so that they are in fact one”. Just pure old address fakery. WIBU?

@Macademiamum

I would not have reported them for using a home they own for school admissions. It doesn't seem like fraud to me.

Except it is fraud

Personally I would never do this but that is just how I am as I am a private person and was never a tell tale. If you are comfortable with this then so be it but I would not like to think I stopped a person going to a school with her friends and made life difficult for someone. But then you can say she may be stopping another child getting into the school which is correct. I just could not do this but imagine there are so many using different addresses to get kids into schools of their choice, all schools should be top standard and should not be like this as very stressful for parents and kids.

They own it - all they needed to do was physically live in the house the day they submitted the application and that would have been enough. We were renting during the application process and originally the deadline had been X but the council than changed it. I was so worried I went to the school head who rang the council in front of me and said as long as we were living in the rental the day we submitted the form it was ok. We just also needed to tell the council when we moved even though it was before school started.

were moving once and I was concerned

Cuno, you still don’t seem to understand that what I was talking about was not whether to report admissions fraud at all but whether the people who said that they would only report if there own child was likely to lose out were right.

@IdentifyingAsAPrincess

I know someone who did this, they just loved their child like everyone else who wanted that school for their own. I couldn’t get worked up about it.

So, it's absolutely fine to do whatever you like because you love your child?

A child will have missed out on the place they are legally entitled to because someone has decided to commit fraud. Probably more than one person and more than one child. Why do you think this is OK?

I wonder how many people would just shrug and think it's fine if it was their child who missed out on their rightful place.

Live by the sword die by the sword - if you commit fraud you take the risk of it blowing up in your face. No sympathy

How do you know them OP? And how do you know about where they’ve put their residence as?

@cuno

I wouldn't tell him? I've already said that. But if the person knew it was me I would be happy for them to know that, and I would not be being nice to that persons face.

I don't think there's anything wrong with my safeguarding just because I wouldn't report a friend for a (possible, not even definite) admissions fraud unless I was willing to tell that person. Which is what this was about not domestic violence

I haven’t read all the posts so has probably already been said but what if the tenants at the used address, apply to the same school?

I don't understand why they didn't just wait til the child started at the school and then move.

Well done op. There will be very possible be another child that as a result cant get into their nearest and/or catchment school and potentially sent several miles away. Maybe even resulting in a settled sibling having to move as the parents can't get them to both and there's a set distance befire the LA will have to sort travel.

Do what everyone else has to do. Accept a place you don't want then appeal and go on waiting lists. It's shit but the right/fair thing to do.

@changingjobs

Wow I can't believe how many people would report something like this. Lots of people need to get a life...

Completely genuine question - so you would sit back and allow your child to miss out at a place at a good school that they’re entitled to, so as to be some kind of ‘cool’ girl who doesn’t snitch?! Honestly? If so I think your priorities are, to put it mildly, warped. You would let your child miss out on the best and closest school to them in order to allow someone else to get away with fraud? If so, shame on you is all I can say!

YANBU.
Injustice runs on people keeping quiet.

YANBU. It isn’t as cut and dried for me as ‘someone’s broken X rule, report them!’

For example I probably wouldn’t report a very disabled person who was being a bit economical with the truth to top up their meagre benefits.

Nor would I report somebody who does something silly that doesn’t really affect other people, like parking on double yellows.

But I think where a person sets out to make a gain for themselves at a loss to others, and there’s no really strong need that justifies it somewhat, reporting is the right thing to do.

@BSideBaby

I think you should never report anyone for anything if you aren't willing to tell them you did to their face.

What a naiive way of thinking @Macademiamum. Surely you realise this wouldn't be possible or safe in many situations?

And also - the OP isn’t the one doing anything wrong. Why on earth should she put herself in an even slightly uncomfortable position (or potentially much worse) in order to be somehow justified in reporting actual fraud?! She doesn’t owe this person anything at all and should absolutely not feel some kind of weird moral obligation to reveal herself as the source of the report.

I’m not that bothered to be honest and don’t believe admission fraud is all that prevalent. I’m more concerned about why people do that and the logic of the admission rules.

There is a lack of choice, varying quality and ethos of a school which really isn’t about Ofsted status.

I use my local school, but its a good choice for DC and they’re thriving and doing well. Up the road is a school with a much stricter approach, more emphasis on homework, obsession with uniform transgressions, v competitive. I know DC would find it stressful. If we lived on the other side of the road that would be DC school.

They own it - all they needed to do was physically live in the house the day they submitted the application and that would have been enough. We were renting during the application process and originally the deadline had been X but the council than changed it. I was so worried I went to the school head who rang the council in front of me and said as long as we were living in the rental the day we submitted the form it was ok. We just also needed to tell the council when we moved even though it was before school started

But you need to submit proof. Like a utility bill.

I think if no one was living there the bill would he suspiciously low amd if there were tenants it wouldn't be in their name.

After reading some of the other answers on here and that it is mainly the very wealthy who buy second homes in the village/town catchment area just to get into that school, and the local kids who may not be so wealthy do not get in well that is just awful so this has changed my mind a lot. People using their wealth to get what they want is not new and it is disgusting. Good to see both sides of this debate and if my child (is adult now) lost a place because someone just moved nearer the school to get in I would be very upset. The schools surely must be aware that this is going on and whole system needs to be changed. Ridiculous to think that siblings may have to go to different schools and how is a parent supposed to get them to different schools for the same time. This reminds me of that big case in us for college admissions, that actress and lots others who were paying to get their children into top colleges. So unfair.

I've known a lot of people commit admissions fraud and nothing ever happens ime

[quote Macademiamum]@cuno

I wouldn't tell him? I've already said that. But if the person knew it was me I would be happy for them to know that, and I would not be being nice to that persons face.

I don't think there's anything wrong with my safeguarding just because I wouldn't report a friend for a (possible, not even definite) admissions fraud unless I was willing to tell that person. Which is what this was about not domestic violence [/quote]
Apologies. I totally missed where you said that and was commenting on where you said this:
"I think you should never report anyone for anything if you aren't willing to tell them you did to their face. So eg. If one of my friends started using drugs and I reported concerns about their child to children's services, I would tell them I was doing so."

I did scroll the thread to see what else you said but the comment where you actually said you wouldn't tell an abuser must have totally slipped by me, so I'm sorry for that.

I wasn't commenting on your safeguarding capabilities because you wouldn't report a friend for admissions fraud. It was based on the comment above which read like a total blanket statement.

School fraud benefits the wealthy middle class. I know of parents who were horrified little johnny didnt get a place at the sought after junior school (yr 3 place) they assumed after spending years at church and getting the church affiliated infant school they would skip in. The sheer horror that they didnt get a spot....the parents did end up renting within 100 m from the school as they knew the waiting list was based on distance from school, there own home was 400metres away. They got the waiting list spot ,moved back to the main home and there two other children coming up got sibling places. Not many folks can afford rent and a mortgage at the same time...so it is a middle class game...we had children turned away on day 1 due to being fraudulent. The popular rental to access local school was known and policy changes took place around the criteria for access to the school.

@LaTristesseDureraEntre

Would you ever tell them it was you though?

Course not. I’d make sympathetic noises when Toby didn’t get into Leafy Primary and wait for them to direct their ire at the council/wherever.

Why not tell them? Spineless really, if you feel strongly enough to report them it's pretty sad to not stand by that.

Absolutely did the right thing. These people are literally BUYING themselves a place at the school. If they gave the school cash to obtain a place then people would be up in arms and shouting fraud until the cows come home. It's the exact same thing. Using their money to get a place that they are not entitled to.

As its a holiday let bills will be in their name pp