Misuse of ambulances

[Lampshade7]

I work for one of the ambulance trusts. We have many, many people who phone up several times a day wanting ambulances. They are sent out but never need them. Obviously this is a vast waste of resources and time. If I had my way I would not send an ambulance no matter what the reason. One of my colleagues was horrified by this and said that they should be sent just in case. I think stuff them, you can cry wolf once too often. IABU?

You can't be serious

If you work for an ambulance trust then surely you're more qualified than anyone on mumsnet to comment on this.

Seems goady.

Er I was with you til you said you wouldn't send them because they've cried wolf too often..

Some people do abuse the ambulance service. It is for emergencies, yet there's been people phoning 999 demanding an ambulance because they had a cold. It's not for using unless you literally can't get yourself to hospital under any other means.

But you can't just not send them unfortunately. There will always be wasters in society.

How can they be 100% sure it's not needed until a paramedic has checked them over.

I'm assuming they're not sent out for a broken finger nail.

Totally understand why you think that. My DH is a paramedic and the amount of ridiculous reasons they get called out is horrendous and they need to go to them when they know it's a waste of time and some poor 85 year old is lying on the floor for hours waiting for help.
Only problem is the first time you don't go to someone that's the time there will be a true emergency

So what happens the time you don’t send one and they actually need it?

What is needed is more support to tackle why these people are asking for ambulances so regularly

Clearly this a joke post as if you did work for the ambulance service then you’d know never to judge a book by its cover. No one knows whether an ambulance is needed until the patient has been seen and it’s very hard to get an ambulance these days. Hopefully one day if you need an ambulance someone will say stuff you get a taxi.

I am a police officer and whilst I understand your frustration at repeat callers and serial time wasters, the answer is never going to be 'Oh just don't respond to this person anymore'.

There are now schemes in place to work with high volume callers and the NHS, to get them to understand how it impacts us and other lines they can call in times of crisis.

Imagine the outroar if we just stopped going to people who annoyed us!

If I had my way I would not send an ambulance no matter what the reason.

The 'people waste NHS resources line' is a way for politicians to hide underfunding and waste, and nothing more.

Trip trap

I can understand that. The ambulance guys we dealt with the other day said they've had hundreds of calls in the last few weeks from the same number. They go and then get shouted abuse. I wouldn't blame the ambulance service if it refused to call to those calls. Yes it could be serious at one time, but maybe they'd learn not to waste time and abuse healthcare workers. Probably not though, those kind of people are simply scum.

I agree, had to call an ambulance for my mum who'd fallen down the stairs, waited hours. Crew told us one person had called 4 times in 3 days for a common cold insisting they be taken in to hospital

I'd blacklist that person with no qualms!

@ClaudiaWankleman

If I had my way I would not send an ambulance no matter what the reason.

The 'people waste NHS resources line' is a way for politicians to hide underfunding and waste, and nothing more.

How are you in a position to state this so definitively when the actual call handlers/paramedics on the thread say the opposite?

Yes it might not be the sole reason for long delays or waiting lists, yes it might be a handy excuse to distract from underfunding and dodgy contracts but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen, just that it's one of several contributory factors. Even if only one of every 100 appointments get missed or calls to 999 are unnecessary that still has a huge knock on effect.

YANBU. I've known people to call ambulances for colds, small non serious burns, twisted ankles etc. all things that can be treated at home and they go on to call them, time and time again to be told there's nothing they can do for them at the hospital.

It makes me angry there's people out there with serious problems waiting 5-6 hours for an ambulance and there's people like that. They should be charged.

Hard to say. I was desperately unwell with "just" norovirus one night to the point where I was incapable of sitting or standing and I lost a stone overnight (yes). The 111 operator told me no ambulance will be sent and noone will come and see me or help me and not to even consider going to A&E. I felt failed by the person over phone. I was so severely dehydrated I passed out. No help was ever sent.

On another occasion there was a mentally disturbed female in my building. I called 999 and the ambulance arrived within 5mins and they called police and took her away.

So I do not know about abuse, but certainly to me it seems it's such an arbitrary decision if they will come and help or not (and not their decision either!) that I would not blame the people, I'd blame the system.

I agree that nobody should be outright blacklisted from ever receiving an ambulance, purely on the basis of previous/regular abuse of the service - but is there no triage done over the phone?

Supposing somebody rang 999 and said that their telly had just broken, so they needed an ambulance (can't afford a taxi) to take them to hospital, so they could watch the one in the waiting room there, surely you wouldn't send an ambulance? Or is it that people who call will just lie about (non-existent) sudden chest pains or something?

It is infuriating, but it can't be much fun for the frequent flyers themselves, who must surely be suffering quite badly with their mental health. I've heard of people calling on average five times every day - regardless of the waste of everybody's time and resources, their whole waking lives must be consumed with calling and travelling back and forth in ambulances, waiting to be seen by HCPs in hospitals and then planning their next emergency call. It can't be any kind of life. I'm surprised that they're considered capable of living independently, to be honest.

I do wonder why there's only a blanket policy with ambulances being sent to everybody requesting them, when that most certainly isn't the case with the police. People often struggle getting the police to come out for quite serious crimes; but going on the same principle as the ambulances, it sounds like they'd send a police car out every time a 999 caller reported somebody stealing their mug at work or kicking at their fence.

How come 'wasting police time' is a chargeable offence, but 'wasting ambulance resources and paramedic time' doesn't seem to exist?

My paramedic friend had a young woman who called the ambulance at the same time each week with an overdose- it was usually him who got there and saved her.). It was a desperate cry for help rather than true suicidal intent but mental health services weren't really interested (BPD).
Then that one week he was on another call and didn't get to her in time.

He has moved away now but still works as a paramedic. He would never consider not going to any call.

@DontBuyANewMumCashmere

I am a police officer and whilst I understand your frustration at repeat callers and serial time wasters, the answer is never going to be 'Oh just don't respond to this person anymore'.

There are now schemes in place to work with high volume callers and the NHS, to get them to understand how it impacts us and other lines they can call in times of crisis.

Imagine the outroar if we just stopped going to people who annoyed us!

Police dispatcher here! And if only we could 😂

What makes you think you can play god?

Seriously, get a new job as you are really not cut out for the job you currently have.

Most frequent callers are not doing it for shits and giggles. It's no coincidence that this has become more of an issue as the availability of mental health services has diminished.

Rather than moaning about it, campaign for better investment in mental health services (and not just online CBT and 'peer support').

Do you mean they are ill but don’t need an ambulance or they are calling an ambulance despite not being ill.

I think if someone is purposely repeatedly wasting ambulance resources they should be able to be prosecuted. However I think it would be dangerous to start refusing to send an ambulance or charge.

@DontBuyANewMumCashmere

I am a police officer and whilst I understand your frustration at repeat callers and serial time wasters, the answer is never going to be 'Oh just don't respond to this person anymore'.

There are now schemes in place to work with high volume callers and the NHS, to get them to understand how it impacts us and other lines they can call in times of crisis.

Imagine the outroar if we just stopped going to people who annoyed us!

@DontBuyANewMumCashmere what’s the protocol for going to addresses where there’s a history (or a high possibility) of violence towards emergency services?

My paramedic friend had a young woman who called the ambulance at the same time each week with an overdose- it was usually him who got there and saved her.). It was a desperate cry for help rather than true suicidal intent but mental health services weren't really interested (BPD).
Then that one week he was on another call and didn't get to her in time.

This is what is so infuriating - when people clearly do need medical assistance, but because the appropriate services wash their hands of the people they could/should be helping, it ends up falling to the emergency responders, who wouldn't have the luxury of just not bothering and leaving somebody else to pick up the pieces, even if they were minded to do so.

We've seen similar during the extended pandemic period, where a lot of GP surgeries have barricaded themselves in and point-blank refused to see genuinely ill people "because Covid", leaving overstretched-to-breaking-point A&E and emergency responders to have to do their work for them, as well as their own.

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