MP's will debate changing the Gender Recognition Act

[Witheringtong]

On Monday 21 February, MP's will debate reforming the Gender Recognition Act.
committees.parliament.uk/committee/326/petitions-committee/news/160946/reform-of-the-gender-recognition-act-to-be-debated-by-mps/

Where do you stand? Since there are only 2 voting options the vote can't reflect all the possible options so you might have to add a comment.
Personally, I dont see how safeguarding or sex based rights can be upheld as long as people can change their legal sex marker. I'm also opposed to convicted sex offenders or violent offenders being able to change their legal details, let alone be places in a women's prison.

AIBU - The GRA should be changed to make it easier for any person to change their legal sex markers, name and birth certificate.

YANBU - The GRA should not be changed.

Neither.

We don't need it any more now that same sex marriage is legal.

Laws should reflect reality.

The GRA either needs to be repealed or the EA tightened up massively. Birth certs shouldn't be falsifiable. Single sex exemptions should be straightforward and well supported.

@Ionlydomassiveones

“It’s hard AF being trans, why make it harder ?”

It’s hard AF being a woman when men can just say they’re a woman and take away hard won protections, dignities and safety.

This!

@AfraidToRun

On the prison issue, what do we do with female prisoners who sexually assault women? Or men who sexually assault men? Do we put homosexual sex offenders in different prisons because there is a threat?

I completely understand the instinct that the idea of transwomen entering female spaces feels like a threat. I haven't really resolved how I feel about it. I wonder if I'm biased and I need to explore further about what I really feel, educate myself and then reconsider.

On the prison issue:

If female prisoners are being assaulted by other female prisoners how does adding male prisoners many with a history of being serious sex offenders into the mix? Is this a case of if women are getting assaulted anyway then whatever, a few more doesn't matter?

What is the difference in experience between a sexual assault from a female and a male? Rape can only be committed by a male. One of the males who has been caught assaulting female prisoners through self ID was in prison in the first place for raping a female patient in the mental health female ward the rapist had self identified onto. The damage caused by the rape has left her too injured to be able to have children.

What is the frequency and significance of statistics of female on female assault compared to male on female? 99% isn't it? Committed by males?

What is the frequency of lesbians sexually assaulting other women? Isn't this a rather homophobic strawman conflating possible sexual attraction with assault and harm?

Fgs what is the matter with people? There is no frigging excuse at all for making male people happy by providing them with non consenting female bodies undressing and vulnerable around them, and it relies on appalling male supremacism that male wishes matter more than female people being afraid, harassed, stripped of dignity, stripped of privacy, assaulted and raped. There are many, many other ways to care for TW prisoners without stuffing every female prisoner on an altar for them.

I completely understand the instinct that the idea of transwomen entering female spaces feels like a threat. I haven't really resolved how I feel about it. I wonder if I'm biased and I need to explore further about what I really feel, educate myself and then reconsider.

If you just think they are male, which they are, it becomes so much clearer.

@AfraidToRun

On the prison issue, what do we do with female prisoners who sexually assault women? Or men who sexually assault men? Do we put homosexual sex offenders in different prisons because there is a threat?

I completely understand the instinct that the idea of transwomen entering female spaces feels like a threat. I haven't really resolved how I feel about it. I wonder if I'm biased and I need to explore further about what I really feel, educate myself and then reconsider.

Women don’t commit the level of sexual violence men do. Something like 50% of identified transwomen in prisons either require maxi security (so utterly dangerous) or are sex offenders. 20% of the general male population are sex offenders. Thats quite high. 3% of the female prison population are sex offenders. The problem is males will always have a physical advantage over a female, it renders female prisoners locked in with male prisoners very vulnerable. The threat is amplified as it were.

@Whatsnewpussyhat

We are also still waiting for anyone to give us a clear, consistent, logical, measurable definition of what 'trans' now means.

It used to be clear. Medically diagnosed transsexuals with dysphoria. They are who were meant to be protected under gender reassignment This is no longer allowed.

Now it is whatever every individual claims it is. Even trans people can't seem to agree on a definition!

It now includes part time cross dressers, males with no dysphoria, people who make no changes to their appearance but still claim to have a thing called a 'gender identity' and students who identify as cats and emojis ffs.

So, what exactly now needs protecting that wouldn't fall under religious belief? Because that is all the new gender identity ideology is.

This.

Women's prisons, refuges, rape crisis centres, sports, opportunities and awards, changing rooms and yes even the poxy loos for the "we just want to pee" brigade, are not a fucking free for all for anyone who feels like it.

These things are for females, the rights our mothers, grandmothers, great grandmothers and beyond fought bloody hard for. And just like that, taken away.

This is not about transsexuals. This is way past that. This is about males, fully functioning cock and balls males, who think it's their bloody right to insert themselves into every part of female life and have the a typical male aggression response when anyone says no.

There's a creepy video from such a person, smugly singing (badly) about how if lesbians won't sleep with them, then they're transphobes. "Cis lesbians I'm talking to you. You won't get a pass when we're through" the lyrics go.

THAT is who the 'be kind' brigade want in women's spaces. It's not Hayley Cropper, it's Barbie Kardashian, who near ripped out a woman's eyelids, has expressed their wish to cause more harm to women and is where? A women's prison, because "gender identity" It's that man in the US who changed his name to something like Princess Zoe Love, went to a women's prison, preyed on someone unable to properly consent, so rape. Then upon release changed back to a man again.

You open up women's spaces to everyone, THIS is who gets let in. And instead of going "hang about, we don't want this, this needs consideration and balance" activists scream bigot and transphobia and those in power back right off with "it's complicated, it's divisive, it's both sides"

It's why this matter is STILL ongoing, after years, because nobody wants to take the responsibility of telling a bunch of male bullies NO.

What is it about declaring oneself to be a woman that changes a male person's male privilege, socialisation and behaviour?

What exactly do you define a "transwoman" as?

Trans people aren’t pretending to be trans for a day“ either.

But they are often pretending to be the opposite sex. Which is physically impossible. This is the problem when people change what they perceive to be gender, and then demand the rights of the opposite sex. Gender and sea aren't the same thing. Yet the two are conflated, effectively destroying safeguards and rights for women and children.

Wont you think of the children, right wing moral panic script point by point

Yes how very right wing of me to not want an adult male to get their penis out in front of my daughter.

The left are sooo enlightened these days....

@PseudoplasticFluid

Wont you think of the children, right wing moral panic script point by point

Yes how very right wing of me to not want an adult male to get their penis out in front of my daughter.

The left are sooo enlightened these days....

The TRAs want to break down boundaries.

I have seen posts on twitter which say that if children can consent to gender surgery which they can in a lot of the world, then the age of consent for children to have sex should be lowered.

But yes it's all just pearl clutching.

But they are oftenpretendingto be the opposite sex. Which is physically impossible

I always say that they are angry at the wrong people.

I mean really someone should have entered the prices fully informed that its not up to the rest of the world to he responsible fir their well being. No one is obliged to ply along with them. That the same restrictions apply as per their sex along with everyone else.

Plus we'd mostly turned a blind eye to the less than 5000 people with a grc. It was lobby groups that expanded the definition to include basically everyone. Of course that wasnt going to go unnoticed. But instead of being angry at being lied to and having everything stuffed up by greedy lobby groups. Somehow it's our fault

I have seen posts on twitter which say that if children can consent to gender surgery which they can in a lot of the world, then the age of consent for children to have sex should be lowered

Wasn't there also opposition to a bill outlawing FGM because it might make it harder for trans people to get surgery ?

YADNBU.

Contact your MP to make them aware it should be repealed. Really easy form to complete.

www.womensrights.network/gra-debate

Wont you think of the children, right wing moral panic script point by point

Feel free to call women whatever names you feel you have to. Sticks and stones etc.

I really don't know what to think. I would be uncomfortable being in a single sex space with a man but I'm uncomfortable in non-single spaces too so how do I know what is an appropriate amount of uncomfortableness and what should be protected? Everything? Nothing? Something in between?

I guess I think focusing on threat isn't enough, it's more than that but I can't work any of that out either. It's just a big mess of my own personal experiences, biases, beliefs, wishes, upgrowing (massive gender stereotypes I'm still undoing the damage from). I don't have any answers and don't know if I'm even asking the right questions. I think I'd prefer a world where we all treated as equals because we were equal and there were was no gendered crime but by the very nature of being human that will never be the case.

I would be uncomfortable being in a single sex space with a man but I'm uncomfortable in non-single spaces too

I'm not deliberately being dense but what is the difference between these?

[quote Jackjack0962]YADNBU.

Contact your MP to make them aware it should be repealed. Really easy form to complete.

www.womensrights.network/gra-debate[/quote]
Thanks Jack. This is really helpful. I will share amongst friends and across social media.

no gendered crime

Crimes and violence against women and girls is not because of gender but because of sex. This is the problem when language has been deliberately mangled.

If a trans woman is attacked it will not be for the same reason as if a woman is attacked. It is impossible for a person to change sex.

I'm uncomfortable with the GRA in any form now, because the notion of 'living as the opposite sex' is so ill defined and can only be based on gender stereotypes.

Adhering to stereotypes doesn't mean a person has changed sex and should not give them access to women's sport, prizes and roles or safe spaces. They are not women. The GRA is a legal fiction which expands the definition of a woman to more than adult human female. This is to the expense of women and girls. I know it also applies to the definition of man before anyone pipes up but men are less likely to be harmed by women who identify as men turning up in their spaces.

Thanks for the statistics. They're helpful.

I meant I'm just generally uncomfortable around men in all spaces because I always feel threatened (trauma history) so I don't know if my own feeling is an appropriate measure to use to steer my opinion. If that makes any sense. I'm not sure it does but it is helpful to see other people's views and I'm taking it all in.

The GRA should be repealed, its nonsense. You cannot change your sex, its a legal fiction that is causing untold damage in society. Gender diversity within the sexes should be celebrated, not fantasised into non existence. So utterly backwards to suggest being gender stereotype non-conforming changes the sex you are. Its an embarrassment to humanity.

Ask yourself who benefits from self ID? It's not women and children, is it?

It should certainly be debated. That's the point of democracy.

I've said this before but either a person can change their gender or they can't. If our society says it's possible to change gender from that assigned at birth then that should be the end of the matter - people should be free to choose their gender and access resources that they would otherwise be barred from, whether it's changing rooms, prisons or elite sport

Can you explain what a 'gender' is?
Nothing is 'assigned at birth'. Sex is observed. Male or female. Simple.

If a few people want to define themselves by outdated, social sex role stereotypes, that's fine. It doesn't change their sex though. And following the stereotypes of the opposite sex isn't breaking stereotypes it is enforcing them further by redefining women to mean a performance of femininity.

People are free to dress how they want and call themselves by whatever name they choose but no, males should not have access to anything female only just because they make an impossible claim of womanhood.

Women should not have their sex class and all safeguarding removed just because a few males demand 'inclusion'.

There's no such thing as "changing gender". They mean sex, in a sort of disembodied way. If "gender" and sex were separate they wouldn't need to access female spaces, because they are about sex.