AIBU to challenge something that sounds like sexism...

[Reluctantadult]

So I am sat in a large car garage while my car is being repaired. I heard one of the men working here in the showroom on the phone, he asked whether the woman was a housewife, why she wasn't working, and where she got her income from. AIBU to think this is a bit inappropriate?! Initially I thought he was speaking to someone looking for a job! So I raised it with a woman working here. She's since explained that it was a sales call to see how they were financing a new car. I feel like a total idiot and am hiding behind my laptop and free coffee... So, AIBU to raise things like this?!

I also challenged one of the builders working on my house recently when he was describing a date he'd been on as a 'minger' and that he 'wouldn't take her down mcdonalds' so fear I am turning into something and need to calm down... so. AIBU?

Wait until your car is fixed, and be willing not to use that garage again.

I’m all for “smashing the patriarchy” - but telling off a bunch of blokes, in a garage - mmmm.

You’ll probably just be seen as some deranged c*. So if you really think some wise words from you will change their thinking - go for it.

Or just tell all your friends what tossers they are.

It's a shiny car dealership place where most of the employees wear suits, rather than a back street garage. Luckily I won't need to come back!

Surely asking about income and employment are required if the person he was talking to was looking to finance a car though?

Yes @VapeVamp12 like I said, I thought he was talking to someone who wanted a job! I'd got the wrong end of the stick and feel like an idiot. This is why I'm thinking perhaps I am wrong to challenge these things!

Although I'm still not sure he should have asked someone if they were a "housewife" and for what reason they were signed off sick?!

I could understand them wanting to know details of the person's employment (employer, FT/PT, length of service, salary etc), or needing to know how they would finance if not from employment, but asking the reasons why they're not working, if not employed? I wouldn't have thought that was relevant, or any of their business tbh.

@Sausagedogsarethebest

I could understand them wanting to know details of the person's employment (employer, FT/PT, length of service, salary etc), or needing to know how they would finance if not from employment, but asking the reasons why they're not working, if not employed? I wouldn't have thought that was relevant, or any of their business tbh.

It was obviously a finance question.

If you go rushing into these things, you will look foolish.

The builder comparison is different. I'd tell him not to tell me stuff like that.

And housewife is genuinely one of the categories they have for deciding finance. Or "home maker".

I’ve gone to buy a new car (cash purchase) and never had anyone ask me if I work or where my income is from. And I wasn’t working at the time, no one asked me why.

Maybe she wanted financing.

Challenging these sort of remarks when it's someone you know or something online is one thing but overhearing one half of a telephone conversation and challenging the person who's side you can hear is a bridge too far imo.

You had no idea of the context of the conversation so what exactly were you planning to say to this man?

If, indeed, there is a woman on the other end of the phone wanting to get a loan to buy a car then the questions would seem perfectly reasonable, although, perhaps 'housewife' is a term that's probably best avoided.

As far as the builder working on your house is concerned, it's fine to challenge something like that if you're part of the conversation otherwise probably best to just let them get on with their Neanderthal chat unless you want to be the subject of their laughter and banter for the rest of the time they're working on your house; you're not going to change the way they view women and the way they talk among themselves.

Then how DO you change the way someone views women?!

@EmmaH2022

And housewife is genuinely one of the categories they have for deciding finance. Or "home maker".

Yes, that’s what I would suspect it was. As a cash buyer no one asked me jack shit except how did I want to pay.

perhaps 'housewife' is a term that's probably best avoided.

Agree but sometimes the online forms are a pre-populated drop down list and housewife is the unfortunate option. I have seen househusband before.

Of course you're not unreasonable. You got the wrong end of the stick with the car sales thing, but it's absolutely no harm for the staff of the garage to recognise that they can be overheard by customers who may well decide to take their custom elsewhere if they don't like what they hear.

Why on earth was your builder using derogatory language about a woman he'd dated in a conversation with you while he was working on your house? That was completely inappropriate and should be stopped immediately with a crisp 'I don't need to hear about your date, X. Let's concentrate on the blockwork.'

I don't know what it is you're afraid you're turning into, though.

Asking "whether the woman was a housewife, why she wasn't working, and where she got her income from" seems perfectly reasonable if they were trying to offer car finance, in fact not asking questions to figure out whether the person could afford the payments would be a dereliction of duty.

"Are you a housewife" is relevant because as far as I remember every credit application has required me to say what my job is, and many SAHP (or SAH non-P) prefer to consider themselves a "housewife" over "unemployed".

"Why aren't you working" is relevant. Someone who doesn't work because they are married to a high earner and doesn't need to will be a different risk to someone who isn't working because they are on disability benefits. Are they not working through choice or circumstance? The key is, is the loan affordable.

"Where do you get your money from" is relevant because if someone has no job those who offer credit are expected to do due diligence to ensure (for example) they are not being used to launder money. There are lots of valid reasons why a person might have money but not earn it (partner in a highly paid job, inheritance, trust fund, lottery winner) but the person offering credit needs to understand where it's coming from.

YANBU to challenge sexism but YABU to do it without considering rational explanations first. A builder talking about a "minger" is obviously sexist. The garage example certainly isn't.

I suppose your real decision is whether you feel more comfortable challenging things but being made to realise you were an idiot, or not challenging things and wishing you had?

BTW, overhearing part of a conversation is a great way to get the wrong end of the stick.

While I think it was probably badly phrased ('Are you a housewife?' Hmm), he absolutely will have to check on how anyone buying an expensive car is going to fund it - it will be anti-money laundering checks he needs to complete.

@Reluctantadult

Then how DO you change the way someone views women?!

Unfortunately, in many cases, you can't change the way some men view and talk about women.

Trying to do so with a group of men who are working in your house for a short time and whose opinion of women is very likely steeped in misogyny isn't going to get you anywhere; save your breath.

Education and re-education starts with children, both boys and girls, in the home and at school, it's a long process and sadly, at the moment, seems to be failing miserably.

I voted YABU. It’s not really for you to question someone, at work, about a professional conversation they are having, at work, about a matter that is none of your business, and for which you have no understanding about the context of the conversation because you don’t work there!
This is where feminism gets a bad name: taking offence by proxy when you aren’t included in the conversation in the first place is not a good look. Pick your battles, OP!

The builder was a dick, because not only is it pretty appalling that that is his mindset (what a charmer), but he's working in someone's home and should be mindful of the boundaries you show customers, colleagues etc.

Misunderstanding a sales call though, maybe don't earwig quite so much - though as a take away perhaps making calls that ARE taking confidential finance info need to be in an office rather than an open area.

@Reluctantadult

Yes *@VapeVamp12* like I said, I thought he was talking to someone who wanted a job! I'd got the wrong end of the stick and feel like an idiot. This is why I'm thinking perhaps I am wrong to challenge these things!

Although I'm still not sure he should have asked someone if they were a "housewife" and for what reason they were signed off sick?!

I don't think you are wrong to challenge sexism; I don't think that's the issue here.

The issue is just that you got the wrong end of the stick from only hearing one side of the story.

So yes, call our sexism when you see it - just make sure you have your facts right first!

@Reluctantadult

Then how DO you change the way someone views women?!

It's very unlikely that you as an individual can change society's views. You can possibly make very small changes to stranger's views either by leading as an example of what you wish to promote, or by speaking with them about a particular issue. You can make a big impact in the way you bring up the next generation, either as a parent or relative or as a person working with young people. Society will change at its own pace though and as an individual we can only make our own choices. I hear people say that if you don't stand up and say something you are complicit, and in certain circumstances I agree, but in others I feel that it's wiser to not wade in before knowing more about the situation at hand.