AIBU to report my parents to social services

[Skynorth]

My father (age 84 next month) has been diabetic pretty much all his life and has recently been hospitalised every two or three months due to his blood sugar being unstable. My mother has always been extremely abusive, these days it would be called coercive control, she physically and emotionally abused myself and my brother to the point my brother hasn’t spoken to her for 30 years and she has never been allowed to meet my niece. I started abusing drugs and alcohol at the age of 13 and have struggled ever since. She is manipulative and cruel and lacks empathy. My dad always fended for himself meals-wise because my mother was always a shockingly bad cook and in fact growing up we practically lived on bread and marge. She herself spent the housekeeping money on stuff for herself. She took everything out on us and we were physically punished on a daily basis for no reason other than she was annoyed with something. It didn’t matter how hard we tried to “behave”, there was always a reason for her to hit us. It was almost ritualised as it followed a pattern.
My dad was belittled by her and she used to pick arguments and shout at him for ridiculous petty excuses and he kept out of it, apologising years later for not doing anything to stop her.
I can’t go to a dentist now because as a child, 7 years old, I went to get a tooth removed and in those days they knocked you out and I woke up too quickly, mouth full of blood, very scared and was crying and my mother told me off for making a scene and when I got home I got an absolute hiding.
Other things included locking us in the cupboard under the stairs, locking us in the coal house or garden shed, making me wait at the bottom of the stairs for “the men from the bad girls home” to come and collect me… and I learned I was adopted very abruptly one day when I was getting punished yet again and she said that’s why I was so “wicked”, because I was adopted.
So basically I don’t trust her to look after my dad now that he’s frail and also going senile. She lies if confronted (eg I expressed my concern that now that he isn’t cooking his own meals and staying on top of his blood sugar etc, she might not be giving him the right nutrition, as it’s already clear that his blood sugar is all over the place. He has almost died twice last year and had to be given CPR by the paramedics. She replied that she always makes healthy meals, she makes a cooked breakfast and makes sure he eats plenty of fruit and veg but then a few days later she said she hasn’t eaten properly during the pandemic as she hasn’t been able to do much in the kitchen due to her dodgy hips. So clearly she isn’t at all making these “healthy”, diabetic-friendly meals.
In addition the house is a disgrace (it always was and we kids used to get punished for that, even though it was her lack of housework to blame, and we never knew when we came home from school whether or not she was going to kick off about the mess, so we were always terrified to go home. I still (at the age of 57) have nightmares that I wake up from shouting or crying because of her abuse. My dad was always a kind and gentle man and he used to just acquiesce for a quiet life as she was so horrible.
I told her she needs to get a care assessment and she said it’s ok she can manage, but I meant a care assessment for my dad, and she said she didn’t want anyone coming in until she has had a “de-clutter”, but that will never happen because she is lazy and spends her time watching TV.
In short I am extremely concerned for my father. I used to work with over 55’s with complex needs as a Support Worker in temporary accommodation so I know there are abuse and vulnerability concerns.
Am I being unreasonable to insist on social services going out to do a care assessment on my dad without her being in the room?
I have to add here I am unable now to do much myself due to having 4th stage cancer and recovering from recent bout of chemotherapy and radiotherapy as well as having bone marrow edema and hairline fractures in my spine and the back of my hip from the radiotherapy.

Honestly? Your brother has the right idea. I’d report to social services and then step away. Put your health and well-being first. They failed you as parents in different ways, they don’t deserve loads of your head space now.

I’m so sorry OP that you suffered such abuse as a child, those things should not have happened to you.

Yes do contact SS and tell them how concerned you are.

I'm sorry, but that's simply not true, unless it differs in different areas.

A formal safeguarding referral for a vulnerable adult is a stand alone form where you refer in and clearly say the risks to the person and who from, with examples. In OP's fathers case it would be physical, emotional harm and neglect from her mother.

I have made many of these.

In each case they have reached a social worker (maybe the same one who does care assessments, but assessed immediately as a safeguarding risk of serious harm).

In all cases they have assessed as so serious that contact has been within 24 hours. Feedback from social worker either "no further involvement, nothing we can tell you as no consent to share" or "x thanks you for your concern and has given permission for me to update you that they have refused any intervention". Lots of honest, open conversations with social workers that they know x is being abused, are very concerned, but x has capacity so their is bugger all they can do. An adult with capacity is free to make any (legal) decision they want even those most would think bad decisions. Without capacity social services can step in regardless of consent.

AFAIK the only way to separate a person at risk from the person who is a risk to them is through a domestic violence protection order (28 days max), court or police bail (if the harm has reached a chargeable level).

Sadly, despite many social workers who really wanted to help the vulnerable person the only positive outcome I've had was when the case was also referred to marac because the risk of harm was so high. It took a form and follow up phone call, then several more incidents, but the vulnerable people are now safe. I believe that OP's mothers risk to her father is at a similar level, but the more proof the better position professionals are in to act. So reporting her abuse and her siblings doing the same would be a massive first step, if she feels able.

I've never been directly involved in care assessments but often hear how lengthy they are.

Sorry that was to @bettybag. Took a while to type.

Definitely report OP. And include the word “safeguarding” in your report.

I’m so sorry you have gone through this and it’s affected your life so badly. And I’m sorry you’re suffering with cancer now. Even if you didn’t have cancer, it wouldn’t be reasonable for you to look after your dad so please don’t think about feeling guilty about that.

@Greenclock couldn't agree more.

Honestly OP, this is sound advice. I know it's going to be hard but that's a fair statement really.

Definitely not being unreasonable, get SS involved asap your dad is extremely vulnerable to not only the abuse but also neglect.

I worked in a care home years ago and a married couple came in, the doting wife and frail husband. Very long story short, she was severely abusive and tried to hide behind a prim and proper facade but being monitored closely she was so sly and nasty toward him. He was moved to a different home for his own protection and she tried to turn her abuse toward the staff - it didn't get her very far obviously. Her daughter told us what kind of a mother she'd been and it was awful to hear (obviously it had no bearing on the level of care she received). Daughter emigrated to Australia and mum was left with no visitors and utterly miserable, all of her own making. Your story reminded me of this so much.

@andweallsingalong

Sorry that was to *@bettybag*. Took a while to type.

What part of what I said wasn't true? Everything you have said is accurate but doesn't contradict what I said, the "form" is irrelevant, it still goes to the same place. Nothing OP has said would come close to MARAC, you would need more evidence of abuse and risk before it was at that level.

@Lalliella

Definitely report OP. And include the word “safeguarding” in your report.

I’m so sorry you have gone through this and it’s affected your life so badly. And I’m sorry you’re suffering with cancer now. Even if you didn’t have cancer, it wouldn’t be reasonable for you to look after your dad so please don’t think about feeling guilty about that.

Yeah using safeguarding doesn't impress anybody. People throw it around all the time.

@bettybag surely it depends on where you live? Where I am a adult safeguarding/protection concern would be made through a specific route for immediate assessment, a care assessment through a different route. We have different teams who do community care and adult support and protection initial assessments so separating them out is the right process. While the community care team would follow up safeguarding concerns they came across in their work they wouldn’t receive new ASP referrals in the normal run of things.

Recent significant case reviews have found that using the incorrect referral process (as in pass it to social work and they’ll figure it out) has at times led to quite significant concerns going unnoticed. Knowing and following referral processes matters, particularly in adult support and protection.

One practical measure is to contact the GP and ask if the District nursing team can check his blood sugar levels for a short while to assess if he needs any medication changes and to check how well he is managing his diabetes, is he on insulin or is it controlled by medication ?

I feel for OP but her dad clearly didn't have a financial barrier because mum got housekeeping presumably from him. Perhaps he stayed for the kids but it didn't sound like he did much to mitigate their abuse.

Yep because the only barrier to someone leaving is finance. There’s so much research available now on the psychology of abuse and the psychological impact of domestic abuse, trauma bonding etc that to boil things down to a simple “he was happy to live with it” is ridiculous.

@andweallsingalong

I'm sorry, but that's simply not true, unless it differs in different areas.

A formal safeguarding referral for a vulnerable adult is a stand alone form where you refer in and clearly say the risks to the person and who from, with examples. In OP's fathers case it would be physical, emotional harm and neglect from her mother.

I have made many of these.

In each case they have reached a social worker (maybe the same one who does care assessments, but assessed immediately as a safeguarding risk of serious harm).

In all cases they have assessed as so serious that contact has been within 24 hours. Feedback from social worker either "no further involvement, nothing we can tell you as no consent to share" or "x thanks you for your concern and has given permission for me to update you that they have refused any intervention". Lots of honest, open conversations with social workers that they know x is being abused, are very concerned, but x has capacity so their is bugger all they can do. An adult with capacity is free to make any (legal) decision they want even those most would think bad decisions. Without capacity social services can step in regardless of consent.

AFAIK the only way to separate a person at risk from the person who is a risk to them is through a domestic violence protection order (28 days max), court or police bail (if the harm has reached a chargeable level).

Sadly, despite many social workers who really wanted to help the vulnerable person the only positive outcome I've had was when the case was also referred to marac because the risk of harm was so high. It took a form and follow up phone call, then several more incidents, but the vulnerable people are now safe. I believe that OP's mothers risk to her father is at a similar level, but the more proof the better position professionals are in to act. So reporting her abuse and her siblings doing the same would be a massive first step, if she feels able.

I've never been directly involved in care assessments but often hear how lengthy they are.

Care act assessments can be done in 30 mins or take weeks. Completely depends on the situation.

Contact with referrer within 24 hours is completely standard (during office hours, try doing one on Satuarday and see what happens) regardless of severity. Most ASC departments have a duty worker in each team to screen all incoming referrals safeguarding or otherwise.

In terms of powers, like I said social services have none. This isn't up for debate it's law. Capacity is tricky but isn't the deciding factor, firstly you need to establish capacity and this in itself can be difficult if they are denied entry. There have been serious case reviews regarding this and the outcome was that Social Services should have applied to the court for access because that's all they can do.

[quote Jellycatspyjamas]@bettybag surely it depends on where you live? Where I am a adult safeguarding/protection concern would be made through a specific route for immediate assessment, a care assessment through a different route. We have different teams who do community care and adult support and protection initial assessments so separating them out is the right process. While the community care team would follow up safeguarding concerns they came across in their work they wouldn’t receive new ASP referrals in the normal run of things.

Recent significant case reviews have found that using the incorrect referral process (as in pass it to social work and they’ll figure it out) has at times led to quite significant concerns going unnoticed. Knowing and following referral processes matters, particularly in adult support and protection.[/quote]
It will depend on the area, generally there will be a MASH for initial screening but not assessment. It's screened to see if it needs to progress to section 42 enquiries.

If it does progress to enquiry it will be assigned to a social worker in a different team to progress enquiries AND SCNA or it will be split across teams (safeguarding social worker for enquiries and other social worker for assessment) depending on set up. ASC can also direct another agency to make enquiries but that wouldn't be relevant here.

MASH is not an emergency service, they generally run within office hours and anything coming outside of this time will be passed to a small EDT team to screen for immediate risk (ie is it 999) and pass over to the in hours service.

In OPs case in my area this would almost certainly be screened out of safeguarding and be passed for assessment albeit urgent assessment. I am going solely from the information in the OP however and there is alot of missing information.

@bettybag

@jellycatpyjamas put it much better than me about the dangers of not specifically making a safeguarding referral using the proper process.

The in touch within 24 hours was with the individual at risk (usually much much quicker). No contact was made with me apart from curtesy feedback with the outcome.

Also disagree re marac. This is a case with significant undocumented abuse, that if reported to the police fills a huge knowledge gap regarding OP's DD's recent hospitalisation.

If I were assessing it and had reports from the siblings on file, along with OP's statement that mum knows that dad is at risk or serious harm or death without the proper nutrition, yet chooses both not to provide it and to lie about it. That along with the childhood abuse would more likely than not bring me to a conclusion that mum is seriously abusing dad and intentionally putting his life at risk. That, to me, is marac level. And with the siblings historic and current reports on file would be more evidence than the other case I mentioned had initially. Yet with multi-agency support (marac) in place that situation was so closely monitored that the victims were, eventually protected.

As before, simply getting him out of there by deception, then backing up with police reports would be far quicker!

Of course you're right that the courts have the power, not social services, but surely on a forum like this that's just symantics. Without capacity, social services can apply for the courts to step in. What order of protection can they apply for against the will of a person with capacity, who has engaged enough to refuse support?

If you don't feel able to report to SS, then contact some of the charities listed. Age UK has a section on reporting abuse. If the house/nutrition is as you say, then he is at risk, particularly if it's dementia, so your Mother not getting appropriate help is a safeguarding concern.

What order of protection can they apply for against the will of a person with capacity, who has engaged enough to refuse support?

I short, there is none, we can’t legislate for people who make choices against their own best interests unless it can be evidenced they lack capacity. All too often though the capacity question fails to take account of undue pressure, trauma response and the impact on capacity - the idea that someone is making a “lifestyle choice” gives services a way out of dealing with a challenging situation - particularly when resources are scarce and pressure is on to close cases. Long term relational social work is needed in adult safeguarding and all too often social workers don’t have the time needed.

I’d be pressing on both care and safeguarding issues - it’s likely the OP will really need to stand her ground to get her dad the support he needs.

[quote andweallsingalong]@bettybag

@jellycatpyjamas put it much better than me about the dangers of not specifically making a safeguarding referral using the proper process.

The in touch within 24 hours was with the individual at risk (usually much much quicker). No contact was made with me apart from curtesy feedback with the outcome.

Also disagree re marac. This is a case with significant undocumented abuse, that if reported to the police fills a huge knowledge gap regarding OP's DD's recent hospitalisation.

If I were assessing it and had reports from the siblings on file, along with OP's statement that mum knows that dad is at risk or serious harm or death without the proper nutrition, yet chooses both not to provide it and to lie about it. That along with the childhood abuse would more likely than not bring me to a conclusion that mum is seriously abusing dad and intentionally putting his life at risk. That, to me, is marac level. And with the siblings historic and current reports on file would be more evidence than the other case I mentioned had initially. Yet with multi-agency support (marac) in place that situation was so closely monitored that the victims were, eventually protected.

As before, simply getting him out of there by deception, then backing up with police reports would be far quicker!

Of course you're right that the courts have the power, not social services, but surely on a forum like this that's just symantics. Without capacity, social services can apply for the courts to step in. What order of protection can they apply for against the will of a person with capacity, who has engaged enough to refuse support?[/quote]
Significant undocumented abuse against the children, not the husband.

We also have nothing but ops suspicions that his hospital admissions are due to wife starving him as opposed to something else. You would want health input before you even considered that it was intentional abuse. Even then you are more likely to be dealing with people who are not coping rather than malicious attempts on his life. Much more likely to go down a carer breakdown route. It could well go down the MARAC route later down the line but you would need a great deal more information first. Honestly OPS case is awful but it isn't unusual.

And yes of course you should always try to follow the proper process but posters seemed to imply that SG was separate to ASC rather than part of it. That was my inference hence the clarification. The outcome of either referral will likely be the same.

I don't think it's semantics to point out the court has powers rather than ASC. The point is you are not having to convince a SW with stories of your childhood, you are having to convince a court that you have exhausted all options to work with a couple to meet needs and maintain safety. It's a high bar.

[quote andweallsingalong]@bettybag

@jellycatpyjamas put it much better than me about the dangers of not specifically making a safeguarding referral using the proper process.

The in touch within 24 hours was with the individual at risk (usually much much quicker). No contact was made with me apart from curtesy feedback with the outcome.

Also disagree re marac. This is a case with significant undocumented abuse, that if reported to the police fills a huge knowledge gap regarding OP's DD's recent hospitalisation.

If I were assessing it and had reports from the siblings on file, along with OP's statement that mum knows that dad is at risk or serious harm or death without the proper nutrition, yet chooses both not to provide it and to lie about it. That along with the childhood abuse would more likely than not bring me to a conclusion that mum is seriously abusing dad and intentionally putting his life at risk. That, to me, is marac level. And with the siblings historic and current reports on file would be more evidence than the other case I mentioned had initially. Yet with multi-agency support (marac) in place that situation was so closely monitored that the victims were, eventually protected.

As before, simply getting him out of there by deception, then backing up with police reports would be far quicker!

Of course you're right that the courts have the power, not social services, but surely on a forum like this that's just symantics. Without capacity, social services can apply for the courts to step in. What order of protection can they apply for against the will of a person with capacity, who has engaged enough to refuse support?[/quote]
Sorry didn't answer the last bit. In this case (if it got that far) they would likely apply to remove ops dad from the home into a care home. It would be a deprivation of liberty for a specific named care home.

They also may apply for access to assess OPs dad if it was denied.

In both cases unless it was urgent (and I mean urgent as in he will almost certainly imminently die) you would need to show that you have absolutely tried everything before getting to that point and could not mitigate or manage the risks without removal from the home. If it was an urgent order you would need a plan to put before the court about what you were going to try afterwards to work with them to get a consensus outcome.

@Jellycatspyjamas

What order of protection can they apply for against the will of a person with capacity, who has engaged enough to refuse support?

I short, there is none, we can’t legislate for people who make choices against their own best interests unless it can be evidenced they lack capacity. All too often though the capacity question fails to take account of undue pressure, trauma response and the impact on capacity - the idea that someone is making a “lifestyle choice” gives services a way out of dealing with a challenging situation - particularly when resources are scarce and pressure is on to close cases. Long term relational social work is needed in adult safeguarding and all too often social workers don’t have the time needed.

I’d be pressing on both care and safeguarding issues - it’s likely the OP will really need to stand her ground to get her dad the support he needs.

Sorry I misread. The above is basically correct however in extremely unusual circumstances you can apply for their court to use their inheritant jurisdiction of somebody does have capacity. It's very very rare. I believe there was a case were this was used where a son was abusing his elderly parents but they were deemed to have capacity.

I am so sorry to hear this, your mum sounds truly vile, does she have some kind of personality disorder? I would make the referral, she won't like it as she will presumably receive less money, but she obviously cannot care for anyone. Does she have friends?

Yanbu to be very concerned but social services probably don’t have a clue about diabetes and will look at more whether the house is in a fit state and if he is safe. If your dad has capacity, it would have to be proven that your mum is abusing him in order for them to remove him. It can be lengthy.
Is your dad under a specialist diabetes team? They will be able to provide support and education around hypoglycaemia and how carbohydrates impact on blood glucose levels. There is plenty of information on diabetes UK that you can read up on for your self but your parents may benefit from being reviewed by the diabetes specialist team for ongoing support. He may be on too much or not enough medication for his diabetes
It would not be unreasonable to speak to social services about the care

Your mother can (and will, by the sounds of it) block any social services intervention. You need to be extremely honest with SS and tell them to ignore her madness.

Whilst not as extreme as your upbringing, your father, like mine, failed miserably in his duty to protect you as children. Where the heck was he when you were terrified to come home? Did he do nothing in the house to keep it tidy/provide for you/protect you? Why do I keep reading this same thing? Abusive mother, but oh, I love my dad because he just wanted a quiet life? Sorry, OP, you’ve struck a chord with me, weak father who I loved but who failed to protect me and my sibling. We both left home and chose to move away as far as we could.

I saw your post during the week and I never got the chance to answer OP. I don't really have much advice, just solidarity- my mother and father were much the same when I was a child. My dad died about 10 years ago and it was a relief in many ways that he got ill when he did - he had Alzheimer's that had progressed moderately by the time he got cancer, and my mother would shout at him when he forgot things, he didn't want me to intervene and make her angry... when he got ill, the house was suddenly full of people the whole time and my mother had to try and be nice. She found it exhausting... I have been NC with her since not long after my dad died, and now I hear she is having memory problems. I am just after speaking to social services and her doctor- as said upthread, they won't tell you much, but you can register your concerns. I honestly don't know what I would do in your situation. We and our abused fathers are scared of disclosing abuse because "it will only make them angrier" and I hate that, but your dad is living there, and if he was going to ever leave he would have by now... the one piece of advice I would give is if you talk to social services, try to focus on things that you know are happening to him right now, nobody will listen if you bring up the past. And be clear that you won't be able to offer practical help.