When is a task for a job interview just a task and when are they taking the p?

[TEETEE1121]

New username... old user. Haven't interviewed for a while...

I've been informed that I am through to the next round of interviews with a company and have been asked to complete a task... formulating a business/marketing plan for a new market the company is set to launch in... basically write a business/marketing plan for the role i am interviewing for. It's a market i know extremely well hence why the company reached out to me about the role.

... and yet there's something about it that rubs me the wrong away. It kind of feels like unpaid consultancy work?

... and there is still another interview round ahead.

Or are such tasks quite common?
Like I said... I haven't interviewed in a while.

Tasks are quite normal but I’ve had more experience of them being time limited. Presentations obviously take a lot of time. My husband has had one interview where he felt they were taking the piss a bit and he felt like he’d provided free consultancy (and then didn’t get the role). I don’t know why that one stood out to him but it felt like a bit of a content gathering exercise as much as an interview. I think if you get a sense it doesn’t feel quite right, trust your senses.

Writing a plan for them is detailed work that you could easily charge for so you are right be be concerned that they are trying to get free consultancy-style input for their business. I don’t see how you can protect your ideas from use - even if you put your name / copyright on the pages, certain ideas will be hard to prove as originating solely from you, right? (Guessing as I don’t know exactly what would be in your plan, of course). I think I’d explain that you are keen on the job but preparing a detailed business plan is something that, at your level of experience, is valuable and something you cannot offer for free. There are so many people in creative / social industries who are expected to interview by providing detailed free ideas and it’s not on.

That reminds me of the guy who came up with the middle of lidl slogan.
It’s a tough call but I would most certainly not put a whole plan together, that is taking the piss.

A business marketing plan is a mammoth task, to do it properly would take weeks not hours. Personally I would steer clear.

The very fact they have asked for this as a whole and not picked at least a part of it to focus on would ring alarm bells. Suggested 5 hours (lol) is another clear indication that you could end up working for people who have no idea how long this sort of thing takes.

If you want the job and the salary is good, consider doing an outline plan like others have suggested but clearly state in the interview that a certain level of detail would require much more time.

I think it's taking the piss. If you go for it I'd definitely lock editing with a watermark with your name on and date.

@Westerman

It sounds like they'll be getting quite a few business plan/strategies for free. I hope there is a way you can protect your work, if you decide to go forward. I think you are right to be concerned.

That’s what I think too. I had an interview like this before, not at a senior level though. I was detailed in the ideas I gave them but didn’t get the job. A few weeks later I noticed they had implemented my ideas, they were far too specific for it to be a coincidence. They contacted me 4 weeks after the interview to say that the person who got the job had oversold herself and wasn’t up to it, and they’d really like me to re-interview. I didn’t bother.

I think you should do a sample plan of the kind of marketing strategies you would implement and the type of research you would carry out etc without giving a whole lot away or doing a huge amount of work. I work in TV and did a long presentation at an interview, got great feedback but didn’t get the job, but then saw some of my ideas on screen several months later. In fact this has happened twice throughout my career. Bit irritating! Good luck with the job though.

I think full strategic marketing plan requests for job interviews take the absolute piss. I work in marketing too and can't believe companies think its OK to ask very experienced people to do this- basically show you my ideas for free. I do have a friend who told a company she wouldn't be presenting them a full strategy but would focus on a small part of it instead. I'm going to use that in future.

Tricky one, I have seen this with companies using it as a cheap way to fish ideas and solutions from rival companies.
There never was a job, they got the candidates to disclose solutions which gave a competitive advantage and pulled the "job" off the market.

If you are going through an agency ask the recruiter in the another agency who has the job on their books but did not put you forward.
If its a senior position and not with a number of agency's I would be extra suspicious of acting as a free consultant.

Well done @FloBot7. It's about someone stood up to the unscrupulous tactics of the CAB!

I am sceptical of the value of these exercises even when they are legitimate.

I've done presentations where I have a lot of industry knowledge and experience, where I've been rejected because they "don't want x" - when every other interaction shows that their business is crying out for X. Be it data analysis, legal compliance, compelling business proposition etc... They don't want to hear what they need, they want to hear that their existing ideas are legit

I've had muh better interviews which give you the questions up front - letting you present the best side of yourself - or asking you to flesh out one simple idea, regardless of the fit to their business, to demonstrate your ability to think around an issue.

Are they big enough to check out on glassdoor to see if they have form for this kind of thing? How badly do you want/need the job?

I remember long, unpaid (and utterly bonkers) selection days being all the rage when I was a new graduate in the early 1990s, and in some niche areas even now (it would put me off going for the job, as would a refusal to pay reasonable interview expenses, especially in the current climate), but in the real world, unless you're a teacher or it's a senior role, how common is this type of thing these days?

5 hours is well over half a business day in most industries; how much would you be losing?

I've always set related but not useable tasks on the few occasions it's been necessary to ask for any kind of presentation. We'd only want to see the skill set in action but deliberately not to take the piss or leave any scope for complaints if there ended up being any similar work produced by the company in the future.

I'd also say 5 hours is unreasonable unless a senior position which this sounds like it might be. How much do you want the job? Bit surprised if they've reached out to you unsolicited and still have multiple interview rounds and a presentation.

I hate it when companies do that.

They are basically asking you and all the other candidates to do a big piece of work for free and they will get the benefits of several experts giving them advice and ideas that they can use later on without having to pay a penny.

Also if you don't have real insider knowledge/data (actual budget, timetable, product details...) any marketing plan is going to be based on assumptions and very basic anyway so it is a pretty pointless exercise.

I used to work in PR and when I was given this type of tasks, I always refused to put together a full PR plan and instead just gave some bullet points/overview about how I would go about putting an effective plan together and what headings/topics I would address in the plan.

If they wanted me to do the actual detailed work they would have to hire me...

It’s standard, I believe.

I interviewed for (and got) a new role 18 months ago. 6 interviews. On interview three I had to pitch a strategy. I knew the industry well and I spent a few hours a day working on it. I presented for about 40 mins, took questions throughout and then went to pure questions after. I was presenting to a panel which included the global head for the team the role was in. He emailed me after thanking for my thoughts and asked for a copy of the presentation.

I suppose I could have said no, but I took it on face value, which I think was correct, that it fulfilled the purpose of establishing a really good rapport during that presentation and showing I was comfortable holding my own. I got offered the role (the two interviews after that one were almost like “passing tests” / “don’t Fuck it up now” interviews where other senior people in different areas of the business used to vet/approve/pick up on any red flags) and a final one for me to ask any lingering questions! It was a LONG process!

Personally I would not push back and say “no” to doing the presentation as I think that’s the point I became the preferred candidate. New to me was the sheer number of interviews. I was last on the job market ten years ago (and got internal promotions) and it was less complicated!

Best of luck!

Ugh this happened to DH who is a consultant in a specialised field. Was headhunted for a dream sounding job, asked to write their new business/marketing plan as part of the interview process. He worked hard on it over several days (would usually charge £7k for the time he spent on it).

They thanked him for his time, took all the free work he’d given them and chose not to hire anyone for the job at that time. 😐

If you want the job, I'd go in with an overview or concentrate on one aspect with a general overview stating that you would normally depend longer on a business strategy so you you just assumed it would need more of a summary. Conclude with your experience and tell them what you are capable of and key success in current and past roles. Tell them if you were employed by them you can do xyand z.

A few years ago a council asked me to look at some building plans as part of an interview process for some houses and a school that they were building. They were selling some houses off so I produced a full document about accessibility for disabled people, analysed plans and made alterations and edits. I presented this at interview didn't getvthe job and they altered their plans on my recommendation for it to pass at local housing panel. I would normally charge privately for the work. Really pissed off now!

In the current candidate market it is madness for a company to request a task which takes you best part of a day to prepare for. Companies are tripping over themselves for top talent and the good ones are putting candidate experience first.

Some PP saying they would expect this or had multiple rounds of interviews somewhere and it's normal.. I have no words. It is not standard and should not be expected. Having respect for your candidates time should be your top priority. After all, you want them to work for you presumably? They can take their skills elsewhere. I say this as a Head of Talent for a big corporate firm...

@GoodForTheSoul

In the current candidate market it is madness for a company to request a task which takes you best part of a day to prepare for. Companies are tripping over themselves for top talent and the good ones are putting candidate experience first.

Some PP saying they would expect this or had multiple rounds of interviews somewhere and it's normal.. I have no words. It is not standard and should not be expected. Having respect for your candidates time should be your top priority. After all, you want them to work for you presumably? They can take their skills elsewhere. I say this as a Head of Talent for a big corporate firm...

I don’t know your industry but been standard in tech for years to have multiple interviews! Just look at Google’s hiring stories.

“It has since been whittled down to 4-9 interviews over a period of about two months, consisting of a phone screen and onsite interviews.”

candor.co/articles/interview-prep/google-interview-process-interview-questions

I’m not employed by Google but I am in the field and this is all relatively normal.

That’s cheeky, I had similar a year back, asked for my launch plan as they struggled to see mg screen, didn’t get the job but said there was quite a lot of ideas they’d love to use.

Cheeky fucks

I refuse to do any tasks that would take more than 2 hours to fully complete and prepare to share. After that experience I also never send these tasks over anymore.

I’d tell them to shove the 5hr task personally

I turned down an interview that wanted an online "innovative and inspiring" presentation plus a briefing paper that was going to take probably a day to put together right in the middle of Covid chaos with a week's notice, clearly privileging people who (a) were furloughed and (b) had no caring responsibilities. I felt resentful. When I was doing similar recruitment subsequently I asked people to send a piece of work that they'd already done then talk about it in the interview; gives a much better real life account of the person than a hypothetical situation anyway.