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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Elderly friend with dangerous neighbours

18 replies

Friendatwitsend · 12/02/2022 09:23

This is not AIBU, but posting here for traffic.

Name change as may be outing.


I have an elderly (early 80’s) friend who lives in a flat in a small block on the outskirts of a city.


She’s lived there many years and at some stage was persuaded that buying her LA flat would be a good idea. All of the tenants at the time got along well.


Over the years the older tenants have left for various reasons and this part of the city has also become less popular.


There have been many changes in tenants but no problems as she is quite pragmatic about normal living noises, etc.


Around 18 months ago the flat next door became vacant for a few weeks before very young new neighbours moved in. From the outset they were noisy and anti social. They left music playing in their 3rd floor flat so they could listen to it whilst sitting in the ground floor garden area, threw rubbish out of the window and down the stairs, had loud visitors after midnight etc.


It transpired that the flat had been leased to a charity which assists young people into independent living. They are meant to be supported but they often knock on my friend’s door for help with everyday things. She was initially quite sympathetic to these youngsters who she knows have had a disadvantaged start and doesn’t mind helping during the day but is nervous opening her door at night, and is frequently disturbed after midnight.


Over the time the charity has had the flat there have been numerous interventions and they have actually removed some tenants as they were deemed just too anti social. They are then immediately replaced by others.


In the 18 months there has been one person stabbed in the flat, another moved out due to a severe head injury ( different accounts as to whether through falling backwards or having head banged on floor), one person taken away due to a serious suicide attempt, and more recently late night police involvement on 2 occasions due to threats to kill. There have been signs of drug use and empty spirit bottles, plus what she describes a little metal canisters, littering the stairs on many occasions.

Visitors ‘buzzing’ her flat to be let in occurs frequently at all hours, 4.00am being the most extreme, and the doors in the shared hallways and stairwells have been damaged 4-5 times at least ( no CCTV so cannot be sure that is connected with this flat so costs met by council/ leaseholders/ insurance)

She is at her wits end. Due to being in a less popular location, and the frequent state of disrepair of the shared area she couldn’t afford to buy anywhere else even if she could sell, which seems unlikely. She would have to declare all of these problems.

She cannot get help from a housing association or the council as she owns her home. She seriously regrets this. She has even offered it back to the council.


The lease to the charity is the real issue. None of the occupants have stayed very long, I assume some have successfully made the transition to independent living and have been moved to a more permanent home, but all have at least been very noisy, and several much worse.


She has a cycle of having to take noise recordings and make other reports of anti social or criminal behaviour until there is enough evidence to move the tenants, and normally then has to start all over again with the next lot.

There are no ‘consequences’ for these tenants. They don’t have normal boundaries imposed. Someone with a permanent council tenancy won’t want to jeopardise that and will often exercise constraint and moderate behaviour. She has never had a problem with a permanent tenant.


The council is freeholder of the building, as well as landlord of all the other flats, and has granted the lease to the charity. She has appealed to them to do something to help which has not happened so far.

Does anyone know if there is any type of formal action she can take?

OP posts:
Belledan1 · 12/02/2022 09:30

How awful. Know not ideal moneywise but could she sell and privately rent. She could invest some of her profit to help towards the rent. You could try the council. I know someone too that owned their house but got a warden controlled flat because of illness. You could quote mental illness and go through GP Age concern might help too.

MandyCarter · 12/02/2022 09:34

Dear God that poor woman. What do the other neighbours think? Can they all unite?

ClariceQuiff · 12/02/2022 09:37

Has she tried contacting her MP?

Crowdfundingforcake · 12/02/2022 09:38

Contact MP. Ring police every single time there are issues. Has she been in touch with the charity. Perhaps a solicitor's letter to the charity. As PP suggested, Agec Concern may be a good start.

Troubled people need help to navigate life but their comfort should not be at the expense of anyone else's. Why the charity thought buying a single flat in a block was a sensible idea goodness knows.

jeaux90 · 12/02/2022 09:42

Can she rent it out and use that to rent somewhere else if she's unable to sell?

ThinWomansBrain · 12/02/2022 09:43

sell and buy a flat in a 55+ or 60+ development?

HumourReplacementTherapy · 12/02/2022 09:46

Does the charity own the flats or do they lease them from the LA/housing association
Would the charity be interested in buying her flat?
How much is it worth if she puts it on the market? She could then rent somewhere.
It sounds absolutely awful for her.
Try shelter/age Uk/MP see if they can help?

Kshhuxnxk · 12/02/2022 09:47

I have no advice but my DM was in the same position except luckily she hadn't bought her house. My sister and I got a mortgage and bought a flat for her which I appreciate is not something many people could do easily. I would put it on the market - you'll be surprised how many landlords are happy to buy in such an area. Poor soul.

Guacamoleontoast · 12/02/2022 09:47

What an awful situation for anyone, let alone an eighty year old. The best option would be to move, but selling the flat would be difficult if she has to declare the problems.
She needs to document each disturbance, ring the police each time and contact the council each time, stating every time that the nuisance is unacceptable and that they need to find other accommodation for their tenants. Also, as others have said, Age Concern.

Titterofwit · 12/02/2022 09:47

Maybe another housing association would buy it from her. She would probably lose money but could then be free to rent in a sheltered block.

MmeHennyPenny · 12/02/2022 09:48

Maybe approach the charity and see if they would be interested in buying her flat.

RoseValleyRambles · 12/02/2022 09:51

Has she spoken to the charity concerned?

NothingIsWrong · 12/02/2022 09:51

I would see if the charity would buy her flat from her and then use the money to settle elsewhere

vdbfamily · 12/02/2022 09:58

Does she know what the charity is called? I think they need to be more sensitive to who they are housing next door to an elderly vulnerable person. There are many faces of homeless people trying to find their feet and they are not all addicts or young. Maybe a family granted asylum or family fleeing violence. She needs to try and speak to charity directly I think.

SolasAnla · 12/02/2022 10:11

The tenent/owner who is causing the problem is the charity. It is deciding to place unsuitable occupiers (sub-tenents) which in turn is resulting in anti-social behaviours.
Ignore the occupants and tackle the problem at the source.

If the flat is leases to the LA by the charity complain about them to the LA. And look for solutions that the LA will support.
Eg
If the problems of propety damage has started since the charity took over approach the LA and suggest that if the charity is going to continue that the charity need to put in cctv at mainly their cost.
Cost of rubbish collection and extra cleaning is charged directly to the charity.

The charity selection process needs to be looked at, is the flat designated as the "likely to fail" or what is the homing success rate of the charity as a whole?
If the flat is actually used as in-between housing and sucessful cases are moved on to "nicer" places object on the basis that is social engineering is making the block of flat a trouble spot.
If the age profile of the block is still mainly poorer older people putting in "problem" occupiers with violent lifestyles may be a form of indirect age discrimination.
Unless the charity is 100% non state funding you should be able to get some of the information via FOI requests to the State funding providers.

Iamthedom · 12/02/2022 10:20

Contact her MP & local councillor
You may want to contact them on her behalf
Get a ring doorbell on her own door as this will assist her with evidence and noise
You can get them fixed to the door so it can’t be stolen
I would even go as far as contacting the local paper with a sad face
We have a hostel at the end of my rd . The management are very good and engage with the local neighbours

erinaceus · 12/02/2022 10:33

Would the charity be interested in leasing or buying her flat, too? That way she could get either an income or sufficient capital to buy somewhere suitable for her.

Friendatwitsend · 12/02/2022 14:02

Thank you for the replies.
The flat is owned by the local council and leased to the charity. We haven’t been able to find out the length of the lease.
The other tenants in the block rent their flats from the council, except one which is privately rented. All of the tenants have complained to the council/landlord at some point.
Some tenants are more directly affected than others. One chooses to switch off her buzzer every evening so her toddler is not woken, but cannot prevent disturbance from music, etc.
My friend has only recently made contact with the landlord of the privately rented flat, who has been quite proactive, speaking to the charity, reporting incidents of noise and unacceptable behaviour to the local council and police. He installed CCTV outside his flat to record the amount of late night visitors to try to build up a case, but was told to remove the camera as it recorded the communal area. He has had discussions with the charity, involved the local councillor and contacted the local MP. He doesn’t live there though and hasn’t had much cooperation.
If my friends sells to a ‘chain breaking’ type organisation she will get around 100 times the current monthly cost of a basic, but suitable flat.
She is very fit and from a long lived family and is scared of running out of funds. I have told her that the council would not let a (by then) 90YO be homeless.
My friend has contacted the charity lots of times. They do listen, will organise ‘case meetings’ and have removed some of the occupants. They only seem to work office hours which I assume is why my friend is disturbed more at night, etc.
I doubt she would want to lease her flat to the charity and unfortunately it wouldn’t give her nearly enough to rent elsewhere.
The description of ‘likely to fail’ mentioned by a PP is exactly how my friend feels about the poor young people in this situation.
Anyway she will have a brief respite this weekend as she has gone to stay with her daughter. She does this quite often now, although it cannot become a permanent solution. I will then help her contact her local councillors and MP.

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