To wish there was a better design than the predator / prey relationship?

[Oneandtwoanda3]

Yes, I am being fucking stupid.

Everything has to eat. But who designed it so that in order to survive, one species has to prey on another having them die in terror and agony?

Must stop watching Attenborough.

I'll join you on the unreasonable bench. I associate David Attenborough's voice with cute things bring eaten at this point...

It really upsets me. Stupid. I bloody love tigers and cheetahs and lions. But to survive, they have to eat beautiful zebras and wildebeest and antelope.

And birds of prey

And even rats and rabbits and mice must be terrified when grabbed by owls and foxes and stoats.

Yes they probably are terrified when grabbed and attacked but unlike humans they don't dwell on this fear before it happens. It is all pretty brutal isn't it but at least they don't live in fear of it the whole time.

Evolution?

It ensures survival of the fittest/strongest/ fastest. The weak don't get to reproduce.

At least prey animals don’t have slow lingering deaths from dementia, injury or illness - they are picked off by predators the moment they become vulnerable. And their herd remains fit and healthy, as the fastest runners evade the predators longer and breed successfully.

Animals aren't sentimental, they live in the moment, and they don't have the ability to look into the future and worry about it.
They react to what's happening at the time, usually on instinct, instinct passed on because their line was strong, fast and good at getting away from predators and thus survived to reproduce.

This is one of the reasons I'm an atheist. If a caring God had designed the universe, surely there would be less fear and suffering built in.

@Babdoc

At least prey animals don’t have slow lingering deaths from dementia, injury or illness - they are picked off by predators the moment they become vulnerable. And their herd remains fit and healthy, as the fastest runners evade the predators longer and breed successfully.

And they don't have to spend ££££ looking after those of them that do have lingering deaths.

It's not a bad model actually.

You have heard of evolution right?

I guess there are always parasites 🥴

I’m not sure why people are asking if I’ve heard of evolution.

I’m not asking why it happens. I regret it has to. I mean, we don’t callously say ‘ah well, evolution’ when a child is sick!

@Justkeeppedaling

It ensures survival of the fittest/strongest/ fastest. The weak don't get to reproduce.

I have Tokophobia from abuse in foster care so now I’m too weak to reproduce...

No one designed it. Which probably answers your question.

Yeah it’s be nice if we could all get along. Oh well c’est la vie (et décès).

I don’t get either why people are bringing up evolution. You’re just saying it’s a shame things are this way.

Nature is cruel. Just look at child birth.

Definitely stop watching nature programmes. They are traumatising. I watched March of the Penguins 15 years ago and it scarred me for life!

Nature is dynamic & creative. You guys want to freeze things in a narrow changing no evolutionary pressure space.

It definitely makes me think that if there is a God He/She is psychopathic.

God could literally have created anything and any systems he wanted. Animals could be fed by sunshine or fresh air, but instead God decides that some animals will have to rip others to shreds to survive. Not the kindest of designs.

The Old Testament version of god, famous for creating the world and all on it, didn’t have a reputation for benevolence so unfortunately we got all the bad stuff at that point.

As a child this was one of the reasons I became an atheist. I couldn’t believe that any god could be so cruel as to spark into existence such a cruel food chain.

@lljkk

Nature is dynamic & creative. You guys want to freeze things in a narrow changing no evolutionary pressure space.

This. Evolution means animals adapt. If this didn't happen then when environmental factors changed animals would die out. I assume you're horrified when species go extinct? Evolution is also reasonably benevolent - antelope et al don't live their lives fearful of their future. They enjoy the here and now. And the brief moment of Adrenalin-induced fear is far shorter lived than the 20 years of decrepitude humans are saddled with.

@coffeeisthebest

Yes they probably are terrified when grabbed and attacked but unlike humans they don't dwell on this fear before it happens. It is all pretty brutal isn't it but at least they don't live in fear of it the whole time.

Well they don't exactly dwell on the fear (as they can't, probably),but the prey animal has evolved to be wary.

So rabbits, living mostly underground, TERRIFIED by the slightest thing, and running, or freezing.
Little birds having to constantly dart here and there so as the big birds can't get them.

They do basically live in fear, rather than 'enjoy the here and now'.

Presumably you’re a vegan OP? Also, when predators are removed it paradoxically leads to more suffering from prey animals as they overpopulate their habitat, eat all the suitable plants and then starve to death. That’s why deer in Scotland for example are culled, to keep the heard strong and sustainable. Reintroducing wolves into Yellowstone park massively improved the health and diversity of prey animals.

I think it pales in comparison to the misery we put dairy and farm animals through.

Macerating unwanted male baby chicks?
Separating cows from their young for their milk?
Forcing food down a goose neck?
Slaughtering animals within view of others who can see and understand what is happening?