To wonder if schools are just a bit crap at the moment (not teacher bashing)

[Terribleenergy]

Added that caveat as am definitely not being deliberately provocative - it’s more to do with funding and class sizes being too big, and just too much crap than individual teachers. I’m a teacher myself and I don’t know that I’m offering the best ‘diet’ for my students - I do my best but I’m limited I suppose.

It’s similar with the NHS and dentists and so on: just seems services aren’t running brilliantly.

So we’ve bitten the bullet and paid for private healthcare and I’m just wondering if I should do the same for private education when the time comes (dc still little) or if people think there will be an improvement in years to come? I can’t see it myself but interested in thoughts and predictions.

I do get the impression from teachers on here that it’s all awful, not sure if it’s any better in the private sector.

For me it’s a combination of worries about standards but also lack of places. Last year 8% of children in our borough got no place at all. There’s a terrible shortage of state secondary places so no idea what I’ll do really. I can just about afford private but I’d rather not.

"However, support for children with SEN is far from acceptable. It is chronically underfunded and under supported. Sadly, I don't see it getting any better."

If a child has sen it is likely the only way a child will get what they need is for a parent to know the law and fight for it.

@PandaDander

I don't think you're a teacher for one minute

Well, I’m not going to post my qualifications here, but I think if you have concerns about whether I’m legitimate or not, contact MNHQ. I can easily send them proof: my work lanyard has my photo and job role on it which I can easily provide to them.

I can just about afford private but I’d rather not

Similar, really.

I’m not convinced private school is so much better personally. I only know of DH’s experience at private school, his parents had to scrimp and scrape to send him so weren’t as wealthy as his friends and he stood out for that reason. He still compares himself to people he went to school with now which isn’t fair because there’s a shit load of nepotism at play. Bullying still happened just in a different snobbish sneering way.

Our DC are at state school and they’ve mostly had a positive experience. The only thing I hate is the rubbish school reading books, they’re so drab. My DD was told she could read whatever books she wanted in year 4 because she was above the highest reading band level. She then got to year 5 and the school bought new books so they told her she had to read their new banded books and was ‘too young’ to be a free reader. WTAF. She still just reads whatever she wants at home because the school books are bloody shit.

@Terribleenergy not sure whether everyone would agree with the 'well-qualified' though there is an argument that when private schools hire non-qualified teachers that state schools can't, they view the candidate in the round and can dismiss if it doesn't work.

@Zilla1 my apologies but could you explain what you mean by they view the candidate in the round and can dismiss if it doesn't work.?

I read on here that private school teachers don't have to have a teaching qualification

It's impossible to generalise which is best as it depend on the school and the child. Some private schools are about taking anyone who has the ability to pay (income stream) while others have a reputation (whether it's academic or nurture ) and provide a better quality experience

I went private while my kids went to comps. They have top qualifications and are confident young people ready for their next stage in life but they had an education where they shared 2 or 3 people to a textbook and were well aware that the school was "broke" (their word)

Another teacher here, yes-I agree with a lot of this.

Class sizes is a funny one. When I was at school (I’m in my 40s), my class size at primary was 37 due to it being a small birth year and the school deciding to have two large classes rather than three small. This was fine and we learnt well, and early half my class passed the 11+ and went to grammar, but…

The teachers had huge amounts of autonomy with what they taught-this was pre national curriculum, they did topic webs and lots of lovely things.

We had a timetable which didn’t require anywhere near the sort of planning that teachers have to do now, eg news writing on a Monday morning, handwriting Tuesday, grammar/spelling type activities Wednesday, creative writing Thursday, comprehension Friday. Chunks of quiet reading/reading to the teacher regularly and a spelling test once a week. We worked our way through maths textbooks after play, asking the teaching for help where necessary. Some children got more teacher time than others and other scouts be pushed to work independently. The teacher would be constantly wondering around giving ideas of how to improve and marking was ticks and crosses. I can’t imagine there was much in the way of lesson planning, assessment, marking etc, which gave the teacher a chance to have a life! They planned fab plays and assemblies and topic work for us instead. We did topic work all afternoon, through geography/history/DT/art etc and did things like basket weaving and country dancing. It mattered so much less that there were big classes, because the teacher wasn’t facing capability if she didn’t deep mark all the books in a certain way or get everyone to a certain level by a certain date.

There was a ‘remove’ class down the corridor where a specialist teacher (with lots of experience and qualifications!) would take children with any additional needs out for times during maths and English to do focused work. Any children with really significant needs was in a special school.

There were no SATs, times tables tests, phonics screeners, target setting to take up huge amounts of time and focus which means that teachers could just focus on a broad well-balanced curriculum.

I absolutely adored primary school-every second, which is probably why I wanted to teach. Sadly, after twenty years, the system has just about broken me. The ridiculous expectations on planning, marking and assessment mean you don’t have the time to see straight half the time. Huge numbers of children with additional needs and no money to support them, means nobody is getting the education they deserve. A move away from text books and the curriculum and 100 new edu-fads changing with every government means nothing is embedded and you’re reinventing the wheel continually.

Things are very broken and Ofsted is a huge factor as well.

I think private schools can be hugely variable and going on the experience my friends had at the local private school, the pastoral side of things can be awful. However that was 15 years ago. Really seems to depend on your particular area.

I mean that I have seen private schools in the UK recruit non-qualified teachers, sometimes paying less than QTs. Trying to be positive, they can make this decision based on experience and the candidates potential to teach (communication skills for example) and academic background (science graduate or physics recruited directly, sometimes from abroad, without doing PGCE in difficult to recruit subjects) and judge the likelihood they will be able to succeed without the theory basis and training that a teaching degree/PGCE and structured development that a state QT is given. If things don't work out then they seem to find it easy to fire the non-performing. I might be missing the point but does this make answer your question? Not every private school has the funds to recruit the best qualified teachers nor pay them more than state.

I read on here that private school teachers don't have to have a teaching qualification

Thanks to Gove, neither do state school teachers.

Schools are underfunded, under-resourced and under-staffed. Teachers are leaving and no where near enough people are applying to train to teach to replace them so the situation, which was already terrible in terms of teacher recruitment, is getting worse.

Kids have had a particularly bad deal this last term with massive staff absence due to covid.

Parents don’t know the half of it.

I’m not sure that the teaching qualification is necessarily the marker for excellence others believe it to be. More worrying is any warm body being chucked in front of the class.

Agreed that QT isn't a marker for excellence though was just saying your original assumption of well-qualified or indeed qualified might not be commonly held.

Well, I mean well qualified more in the sense that I’ve been impressed by the qualifications I’ve seen from the local private school although not all are like this I am sure.

That sounds so much better how

I'll be honest you teachers will probably be wasting your time trying to polish my dd2 into this expected C or equivalent number grade for English and maths. She's probably dyslexic. Her memory is appalling even at 11 she will spell he same word wrong in different ways every time. She's yet to master all the HFW and it's probably sheer obliviousness and desire to please her teachers She's not cracked and given up yet.

So while you stress her and yourselves trying to achieve the impossible without all having a nervous breakdown, you could be encouraging/developing other nore practical skills and her IT skills which she is far better at.

I would like to know when we lost sight of the fact that there are a fair few jobs that perhaps don't require outstanding literacy skills , and the books can be outsourced , that we will all need fir a very long time and can be pretty well earning jobs.

Its such a waste for so many children who aren't the brightest and most capable when it comes to the academic side but would be abke to earn themselves a living quite happily of they were allowed to focus on their strengths and acceot their limitations.

That C won't be any good if it's driven the kid to despair getting it

It sounds better but I had a similar primary experience and it was just chaos.

@Whatwouldscullydo

That sounds so much better how

I'll be honest you teachers will probably be wasting your time trying to polish my dd2 into this expected C or equivalent number grade for English and maths. She's probably dyslexic. Her memory is appalling even at 11 she will spell he same word wrong in different ways every time. She's yet to master all the HFW and it's probably sheer obliviousness and desire to please her teachers She's not cracked and given up yet.

So while you stress her and yourselves trying to achieve the impossible without all having a nervous breakdown, you could be encouraging/developing other nore practical skills and her IT skills which she is far better at.

I would like to know when we lost sight of the fact that there are a fair few jobs that perhaps don't require outstanding literacy skills , and the books can be outsourced , that we will all need fir a very long time and can be pretty well earning jobs.

Its such a waste for so many children who aren't the brightest and most capable when it comes to the academic side but would be abke to earn themselves a living quite happily of they were allowed to focus on their strengths and acceot their limitations.

That C won't be any good if it's driven the kid to despair getting it

It’s because the current system of massive class sizes, lack of ALN support and huge ability ranges across a classroom makes it really difficult to personalise each child’s education. The CfE is knowledge based rather than skills based (regardless of the official line) so that’s what we teach. The solution is more money.

Iwas a teacher for 26 years.

Teaching in the U.K is pretty toxic at the moment. I don’t like the talk of getting rid of summer holiday or extending the school day. I think that’s a load of tosh. I’m disturbed by the low recruitment numbers ( on another thread) and the fact that teachers are just expected to catch Covid repeatedly. I see that they are about to introduce tests for 14 year olds. Why?

I’m relieved that my last one has only 2 years ( 6th form left to go)

I think the whole thing is definitely sliding down like dentistry. A Labour government might improve things. But cuts and stressed staff or really making it an unmanageable mess.

I'm a teacher and I agree. All the teachers I know are brilliant and work 50+ hours a week but I feel it just doesn't really show. I don't have enough time in the day to support each and every child and the gaps due to covid mean I have children working at about 5 different levels. If I want to teach and art, DT or food teach lesson, I have to buy the resources myself as there is no money in the budget so I teach the bare minimum. There is so much pointless paperwork that takes hours and I wish that time could be spent on planning amazing lessons for the children. Also, our school really restricts how we teach English lessons and they are so boring - I wish I was able to teach it in a more creative way but we are forced to teach it in a certain way. Teachers and individual staff are amazing but the bureaucracy, endless paperwork and lack of funding are contributing to (some) schools being a bit rubbish.

We've had 20% staff absence for the last 3 weeks and it's impossible to get supply. The staff who are left are on their knees. Yes the students are very much being short changed.

Until recently, we've been able to more or less keep up standards, absences were lower and staff really pulled together through the crisis to keep the show on the road, but there's only so long you can keep that up.

Well it depends massively on the school doesn't it? I teach in a beautiful village primary (state) where classes are under 20 pupils (and yes we have the budget to sustain that before anyone asks). The children spend vast amounts of time every week outside and in the woods. They go on sports trips every half term and do plenty of art, computing and music amongst other things. I think they're getting an excellent education.

All in all, the effect is one of dehumanisation, and kids are suffering. I would have hoped that in the 21st century we would be moving away from an education system based on factory farming people with no critical thinking skills and no agency, but we are hurtling at speed in a very unpleasant direction.

Yup. Couldn't agree more. I can't see it getting better, my friends daughter is doing a PGCE and a large chunk of her cohort have dropped out as were shocked at the reality of teaching. Teachers need to be a spark of energy and joy to instil passion in a subject, not just to teach exam technique. Most teachers last a few years as it is so draining and soul sucking.

I would go private if you have the money.

Well it depends massively on the school doesn't it? I teach in a beautiful village primary (state) where classes are under 20 pupils (and yes we have the budget to sustain that before anyone asks). The children spend vast amounts of time every week outside and in the woods. They go on sports trips every half term and do plenty of art, computing and music amongst other things. I think they're getting an excellent education

It isn’t like this in secondary though.

Having listened to MIL (deputy head of a good primary school) moaning constantly about how awful and stressful her job was we decided to home ed our DC with use of tutors over the years. This was before things got even worse with Covid.

So glad we did reading all the constant threads on MN about the state of schools and teachers in despair. Our DC are happy, social and have all sat GCSEs early achieving high grades. No regrets about not entering the schooling system particularly with how it's fairing nowadays and the low morale.