AIBU to allow 9yo ds to read books with swear words?

[PossiblyDreaming]

This was done completely accidentally. He’s an enthusiastic and confident reader. He recently finished the His Dark Materials trilogy and absolutely loved it. I’d read the Book of Dust (the prequel) to it when it was released a couple of years ago and remembered it being aimed at adults a bit more so told ds he might struggle with it but he wanted to give it a go anyway. He’s now about halfway through and is really enjoying it. He’s asked me about the meaning of a couple of words but they’ve been words that Pullman has changed slightly so it fits in to the same but slightly different world that it is set in rather than him not understanding “proper” English word iyswim.

Anyway, last night he was lying in bed reading and started sniggering. I asked him what was funny and he said that he couldn’t tell me. It turns out on a single page it said “fuck” four times 😬. He said there had been lots of swear words but he hadn’t told me as he thought I’d stop him reading it.

I personally don’t mind. There’s definitely no sex scenes and I wouldn’t let him read books with sex scenes at this age or books with gratuitous violence but the swear words are words he already knows (from school, not me), he knows not to say them and he’s really enjoying the boom. However, he’s staying at his dad’s house this weekend and I know his dad will disapprove and use it as evidence of my poor parenting.

AIBU to let him read books like this? If so, how old should he be before I let him read them?

I read The Silence of The Lambs at 11. But my parents weren't very good.

Few fucks is fine.

My four year old recently said 'For fox snake!' when he dropped something. I blame his Dad's DIY utterances

If you have a child/children that are advanced readers, there will be occasions when the language or some content may be more advanced than probably you would wish. I always used to read the books they read, and discuss anything that they might not yet have come across.
If a book had ever turned out to be too extreme for that, then I suppose I would have steered them away from it, but that didn’t happen in our case. As someone has already said, I also wouldn’t want to discourage independent reading.

I don't think swearing is the main issue with The Book of Dust, as the themes in the book are pretty adult. This is the view of the Book Trust (a charity that promotes children's reading):

Is The Book of Dust series for children or adults?
Philip Pullman has said previously that he doesn't set out to write for any particular audience – child or adult – but that he hopes that his work will appeal to a range of readers of all ages.

As with the original series, these are books that can be read by (older) children, teens and adults alike, but obviously at the discretion of parents or carers.

It's worth noting that La Belle Sauvage is darker in tone and content than the His Dark Materials trilogy. For that reason, we've recommended it for ages 13+. Similarly, we've recommended The Secret Commonwealth for readers aged 14+. In this book, Lyra is an adult and, as such, the book touches on some grown-up and difficult issues, including those of a sexual nature.

I'm just coming back to this thread because, if you're on twitter, you should look at his current tweets. He is making such a fool of himself at the moment, I'm almost embarrassed for him.

@Soundwave

If he's 9YO then I can guarantee he has heard much worse in the school playground.

This.

I remember my DD aged about 12 telling me of the time a 'yoof worker' came into their school and asked them about words to describe various things - being gay, drugs, sexual assault, dick pics etc. Said person was shocked at the words her class came up with, most of which he hadn't hear of!

At the end of the day, words are only letters ie duck versus fuck - it is the context that is important. Teaching your child about intent and context is more important IMO. So he should know that 'fuck' is only a four letter word, but there are times when it is not acceptable to say it. That sort of thing.

@SarahAndQuack

I'm just coming back to this thread because, if you're on twitter, you should look at his current tweets. He is making such a fool of himself at the moment, I'm almost embarrassed for him.

Who???

I wouldn't worry about this. He knows the word and he knows he's not allowed to say it. Actually seeing it written down in context is really not a big deal at all.

You mentioned that you think he'd enjoy Douglas Adams - how about Terry Pratchett too? The Discworld books are great fun and there are loads and loads of them. Obviously they're aimed at adults but I don't think there's much, if anything, in them that wouldn't be OK for a nine-year-old. Maybe the occasional swear word but even then, pretty mild.

@Mybestyear - Philip Pullman, sorry. He's the author of the books.

Language doesn’t bother me at all. In fact it can make for an interesting discussion. My 11-year-old recently read To Kill A Mockingbird and we talked a lot about the “n word”. It also led to a discussion on why some ignorant people think that book and others should be banned from schools.

I do keep an eye on the content of the books my children read, especially with respect to sex, gender stereotypes and attitudes toward women. Often it’s just so we can discuss it but theee are certain things I’d rather not have them read at a young age. My house was a lot like @BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz and we had a lot of steamy bestseller-type books by people like Danielle Steel, Harold Robbins, Jilly Cooper, Ken Follett, the Clan of the Cave Bear series. I learned the terms “pulsing manhood” and “throbbing mound” in probably Year 5. Flowers in the Attic series by V.C. Andrews wasn’t as overtly graphic but incest is a complicated topic for the prepubescent set . I could have used a bit of censoring at least until I was out of primary school!

Btw that wasn’t a dig at you, @BernadetteRostankowskiWolowitz. My parents weren’t being thoughtful about allowing me free access to their books, they just weren’t paying attention. They also had the illustrated Joy of Sex and years of back issues of Playboy.

@SarahAndQuack is he going off on Twitter again? I saw him tentatively dip his toe in the water a year or so ago, get thoroughly told off and declared women a bunch of big meanies but I didn’t realise he’d started again 😂.

Re the rape scene, I did reread it this afternoon as I didn’t remember it being that graphic. It’s something that any adult would understand the motivation of but I’m pretty sure my ds would just see it as a baddie being nasty, he wouldn’t get the sexual undertones. You’re right about the Secret Commonwealth though. I didn’t finish it as I found it a bit of a slog and really different from his other stuff so I won’t be encouraging DS to read that. I’ll have to reread Lyra’s Oxford and Once Upon ATime in the North as I’ve forgotten what they’re like.

It's hard to find books suitable for readers who want an intellectual challenge but who are not emotionally or psychologically or socially ready for books like Pullman's, which have themes which might be hard to process by a child of your DS's age.

I think you should steer him in another direction for a while.

There are books which might be enjoyable for kids like your DS in the historical fiction area - just off the top of my head, maybe check out Farmer Boy by Laura Ingalls Wilder, and ask your local librarian for suggestions. Try fantasy series too.

Your exH is not a nice man. You have my sympathies. If he regularly complains about your parenting, make sure you respond with a 'Duly noted' or 'Sorry you feel that way'.

My 10 year old read The Martian. There is a lot of fuck and shit in that. In the context of the book, I've no problem with it.

[quote SarahAndQuack]@Mybestyear - Philip Pullman, sorry. He's the author of the books.[/quote]
Thanks. Will look this up.

[quote PossiblyDreaming]@SarahAndQuack is he going off on Twitter again? I saw him tentatively dip his toe in the water a year or so ago, get thoroughly told off and declared women a bunch of big meanies but I didn’t realise he’d started again 😂.

Re the rape scene, I did reread it this afternoon as I didn’t remember it being that graphic. It’s something that any adult would understand the motivation of but I’m pretty sure my ds would just see it as a baddie being nasty, he wouldn’t get the sexual undertones. You’re right about the Secret Commonwealth though. I didn’t finish it as I found it a bit of a slog and really different from his other stuff so I won’t be encouraging DS to read that. I’ll have to reread Lyra’s Oxford and Once Upon ATime in the North as I’ve forgotten what they’re like.[/quote]
Yep, he's continuing on that path really. He's recently been explaining to a load of women of colour that he's not privileged at all, oh no, so tough for him, life is hard.

I'm really disappointed as I loved his early work, but I'm really not keen on him as a person or on his recent books.