AIBU reporting colleague

[endofmytether4]

My colleague is in a senior position to me. In our office we don't have a clock in/out system and we have no onsite management.

Part of her job is to fill in a timesheet on behalf of everybody in the department.

Over the last year or so she has never worked a full week and marks on the calendar that she has a couple of hours holiday leave to take maybe twice- three times a week. I was suspicious for a while because although she doesn't take full weeks off, it seemed like she had a lot more leave than anyone else.

Her leaving early means a lot more work for me as we get busier towards the end of the day and if she took a full day off, someone would cover her role but not if its just a couple of hours.

Last week when she left early I checked the timesheets and she hasn't declared any of these hours. She has almost four weeks of leave left and we have been offered payment for any days left at the end of the year (April- April) so I'm assuming she's going to cash it in.

Our manager has no way of knowing she's doing this unless someone explicitly tells her.

YABU- she might have a reason she needs to leave early so much/she might need the holidays and the extra money.
YANBU- she is abusing the system and making work life more difficult for the people who have to pick up her slack.

I’m quite frankly astounded by the people on this thread who are saying if it’s not negatively impacting you then just ignore it.

It’s my these people do realise that this is fraud right? Where ate the morals?

In answer Op, of course you should report it.

The thing is if she does have a good reason to take leave without recording it and management know about it then it doesn't really matter if the OP raises it as an issue. It's not like they're going to fire the OP for saying they need extra support to cover the time off.

I've tackled similar in the civil service years ago . I took over temporary line management of a group of people . It took three days to be sure they were taking the piss about teabreaks (in the days when we still had them). Spoke to them all individually and 5 of the 6 were all yeah sorry we were taking the piss a bit . won't happen again and the 6th went for complete denial. So when he went off to play football at lunchtime the next day, came back, started eating a sandwich at his desk and refused to answer the phone "because I'm on my lunch" I checked his flexi records. It was instantly apparent that three days a week he was playing football for two hours but not keying out. He would key out when he came back (when the rest of the team were keying back in) and then key back in 30 minutes later. He was sacked for gross misconduct (it had been going on for nearly 3years) and his previous line manager who had turned a blind eye was reprimanded. I still think that if she had tackled it when he first tried it on it could have been dealt with as a misdemeanour, but her ignoring it and the length of time it had gone on for made it much more serious.

I worked with someone like this years ago. He would pitch up at 6am, clock in and sit watching TV, making calls abroad or reading the newspaper until the first person arrived at 9am then declare he'd done a full days work by the time I arrived at 9.30. He'd leave at 3.30pm. He'd clock up 3 hours a day extra every day and at one point he had 100 days holiday to take.

Management knew and didn't do a thing. He was eventually sacked when it was found out he'd been stealing. It doesn't usually stop at stealing time.

I have a colleague like this and it's very demoralising. She knows we know she's taking the piss, and she doesn't give a shit. So the team dynamics are skewed already, plus the extra workload for us. The manager knows but he's useless and also comes in at 7 every day so he can leave early. Apparently he does a lot of online training for that first couple of hours. We have raised it with him but nothing happens.,

Yes report her, it’s unfair on everyone when people do this.

I'd be tempted to report it but as other posters have said, do it in a way that highlights the impact on you.

Asking if there will be any cover is a good idea, as it makes it clear there is an issue without being too accusatory to her.

The other option of course is talking to her directly - have you tried this? How did she respond? She is taking the piss but might not actually realise the impact on the team if you don't tell her.

I'd do what Dreamsaver suggested and report on a "When are we getting cover to help when X is off?" Way.
O know you say it's hard to leave and go on time but I really would. Leave whatever work needs doing and just go.
Years ago I worked as a TA in a school. The new head altered the hours. Fine. I checked that I would have a new contract confining my new wear time. Oh no Gardening, you won't be paid to work, just come in early to free!!!!!
Are you fucking joking? Was my response.
Anyway end result I went in every day at the time I was paid form. Due to my role this meant the kids were left alone without suoervusion, illegal. Head got bollocked. I found a new job but never did I go in unpaid to cover, not my problem.

My supervisor does something similar. Arrives at 9.45 as he has to take his kid to school but still leaves on time at 5. Apparently he logs on and works the 45 minutes when he wakes up at 6am.
Yeah ok….there’s no actual evidence this happens but his manager is his mate so it’s all good…winds us all up.

@DreamerSeven

I’d raise it with your manager in a “as Barbara is regularly taking a couple of hours a week of leave, it’s putting additional stress on my workload. Are there any plans to backfill her hours so we have adequate cover? You can see from the calendar how often this is occurring” That way you’re raising it from the point of view of how it’s affecting you rather than accusing her of anything.

Perfection!

Tread carefully. We had a colleague who was being treated for breast cancer, she was given 1 day per week off and then allowed to work from home for 1 day per week (pre-covid when this wasn’t normal). It was not a company policy so this was done via timesheets, same as your colleague, but all senior management knew. Most colleagues didn’t, wasn’t their business.

I'm a firm believer in minding my own business at work unless something directly impacts me.

I think framing it as a you problem and asking if there is any support avaliable to you for the extra work is the best way to go about it.

If it all blows up you were asking a genuine question to resolve your issue.

I would do as suggested and report from the point of view of impact on you.

Why can you all see each other’s time sheets? I’ve never worked anywhere that anyone but management could see everyone else’s. I could only see my own.

@IDidntFloatUpTheLaganInABubble

I'm a firm believer in minding my own business at work unless something directly impacts me.

I think framing it as a you problem and asking if there is any support avaliable to you for the extra work is the best way to go about it.

If it all blows up you were asking a genuine question to resolve your issue.

Agree with this. Good luck OP.

Another vote for report, but in a "affecting my workload" kind of way.
Fuck the whole "you don't know what she's going through" they have no idea what you're going through!
If it's something that affects you, you should be informed.
"Pisstaker has a lot on at the moment so unfortunately we are going to have to pick up some slack, thank you for your understanding" etc.
People always forget that flexibility goes both ways, but it sounds more like she's just taking the piss.
Report. If it's not dealt with, move on. It will not improve.

@DreamerSeven

I’d raise it with your manager in a “as Barbara is regularly taking a couple of hours a week of leave, it’s putting additional stress on my workload. Are there any plans to backfill her hours so we have adequate cover? You can see from the calendar how often this is occurring” That way you’re raising it from the point of view of how it’s affecting you rather than accusing her of anything.

This

Over the last year or so she has never worked a full week and marks on the calendar that she has a couple of hours holiday leave to take maybe twice- three times a week

She's based offsite and we've seen her once in the last year

How is she marking a physical calendar if she isn't there?

I'm a senior manager in the public sector and think you should tread carefully, OP.

I've often had staff in my service complain to me about things they feel colleagues are doing that takes the piss (working too few hours, not going to meetings, taking too many holidays, whatever).

99% of the time it's something I'm already aware of, but the Complaining Colleague (CC) has no idea. CC will come to me all riled up saying they're aware of "fraud" or things are "unfair" etc, but mostly they're just blinkered and have no idea of the full picture and the circumstances in play.

I have staff who need time off for counselling appointments and other regular appointments; staff that couldn't take time off over Covid and are now taking it back; staff who have compressed hours for caring purposes, etc etc. Their colleagues mainly have no idea of their personal circumstances. But that doesn't stop them coming to me all fired up, thinking they're in the right.

You may well be right that your colleague is taking the piss, OP, but be prepared for the outcome that she isn't, and consider how you stop this reflecting badly on you.

@FluffyBooBoo

Over the last year or so she has never worked a full week and marks on the calendar that she has a couple of hours holiday leave to take maybe twice- three times a week

She's based offsite and we've seen her once in the last year

How is she marking a physical calendar if she isn't there?

How have you read the thread in enough detail to quote those two comments but not realise they're talking about two different people?

@DreamerSeven

I’d raise it with your manager in a “as Barbara is regularly taking a couple of hours a week of leave, it’s putting additional stress on my workload. Are there any plans to backfill her hours so we have adequate cover? You can see from the calendar how often this is occurring” That way you’re raising it from the point of view of how it’s affecting you rather than accusing her of anything.

Yep, if you’re going to do it this is the way. Assume they already know and flag it as a workload issue. Either that or completely anonymously if that’s possible.

I think you are right to report on the basis it is impacting your workload and if you coach it like that, you're not actually making a complaint about your colleague directly. No one needs to know you've checked the timesheets, just that you're fed up of having to cover her work two or three times a week and the manager needs to come up with a better solution.

If she was getting her work done and leaving it would be unreasonable if she's not getting her work done and leaving she's unreasonable in my opinion. Would report her framed as needing cover but would also document a month of this behaviour 1st with time stamped pictures of annual leave cards cos people who are brazen enough to do this are likely to lie and try cover their tracks.

@fellrunner85

I'm a senior manager in the public sector and think you should tread carefully, OP.

I've often had staff in my service complain to me about things they feel colleagues are doing that takes the piss (working too few hours, not going to meetings, taking too many holidays, whatever).

99% of the time it's something I'm already aware of, but the Complaining Colleague (CC) has no idea. CC will come to me all riled up saying they're aware of "fraud" or things are "unfair" etc, but mostly they're just blinkered and have no idea of the full picture and the circumstances in play.

I have staff who need time off for counselling appointments and other regular appointments; staff that couldn't take time off over Covid and are now taking it back; staff who have compressed hours for caring purposes, etc etc. Their colleagues mainly have no idea of their personal circumstances. But that doesn't stop them coming to me all fired up, thinking they're in the right.

You may well be right that your colleague is taking the piss, OP, but be prepared for the outcome that she isn't, and consider how you stop this reflecting badly on you.

So, all these staff members who need time off for various reasons (fair enough), how are you ensuring that their absences don't affect the other staff? Even if it's not directly impacting on workload, it clearly impacts morale if people are 'riled up' enough to say something. I get that people's private lives are private but as a manager you should be minimising any impact on your other staff. You're actually only making more work for yourself if you don't. And anyway, if they're complaining and you know there's a valid reason for the leave, what's the problem? Just tell them that and they'll be on their way. If there isn't, well then now you know about it and can take action.

So, all these staff members who need time off for various reasons (fair enough), how are you ensuring that their absences don't affect the other staff

I always ensure that there is sufficient resource and that their absence doesn't affect other staff - unfortunately though, even if they're not directly affected, lots of people still want a whinge if they feel someone else is getting something for nothing.

Note - I'm not saying this is the case with the OP, as she has been affected by her colleagues' absence. I'm just saying that in my experience, lots of people will take the opportunity for a moan even if a) they don't know the full circumstances and b) it's nothing to do with them.

As a manager there is a tricky balance to find between reassuring the team that nothing untoward is going on, and maintaining people's privacy. Yes, it should be as simple as saying there are valid reasons for absence that are confidential. But the reality of that is that such conversations often result in whispers and misunderstandings, as sadly people like a good gossip about other people's personal lives. Again, I am by no means saying this is the case with the OP. I'm just pointing out that cases that may seem clear cut are often anything but.

@NeesAndToes

Do you have a legitimate reason for checking the timesheets? Can you ask to do the same thing and leave early?

Yes. The OP has to pick up the missing colleague's work