To feel that I'm being treated unfairly at work?

[careerchangemaybe]

I'll try to keep a long story short and just the facts - trying to be as objective as possible.

Recently returned to work from 10 months maternity leave - been back 6 weeks now. I have struggled with my mental health whilst on maternity leave quite significantly - I spent some time admitted to a mother and baby unit when my baby was born, and have struggled on and off with anxiety and low mood throughout my maternity leave. I have been seen regularly for therapy by a perinatal mental health team, who are fabulous and have helped me lots.

Part of my struggles relate to separation from my baby, which sends my anxiety into overdrive. Hence the return to work has been extremely hard indeed, to put it mildly. But I've put a brave face on and tried to just get on with it thus far.

I submitted a request for flexible working / reduced hours to my manager. I wanted to go from FT (37 hours a week) to PT (33 hours a week). So in effect I'm asking for a reduction of just 4 hours per week. It's been declined. On the basis that it cannot be justified in the current for climate of severe staff shortages and the service being at crisis point as a result of Covid (I am in a large public sector organisation).

However, I know for a fact that some other colleagues work flexibly and have reduced hours, for their own reasons. So in effect I am being treated differently because of the work climate at the moment.

I honestly feel as though I will end up on long term sick if I have to continue to work FT hours. I am asking for a small bit of flexibility to enable me to keep working and to meet my health needs.

Am I being unreasonable? Any advice on how to proceed with this? I'm really lost. Thanks.

Wow @careerchangemaybe please ignore the blunt replies here.
Yes it’s true that ultimately an employer could play hardball, ignore OH advice and dismiss you on ill health grounds.

But in reality, most employers - and all good employers - will try to fulfil the requirements of an OH assessment. Especially if the individual may have additional protections under the Equality Act - not just because of MH disability, but also through maternity and being a woman.

Please approach OH for an assessment. And please be honest with them about your health. It is likely you will be able to work with OH and your employer to find a mutually acceptable solution that helps you recover. Good luck.

Says the poster who has repeatedly given incorrect legal advice. Hardly helpful.

@AintNoPartyLikeANumber10Party

Wow *@careerchangemaybe* please ignore the blunt replies here. Yes it’s true that ultimately an employer could play hardball, ignore OH advice and dismiss you on ill health grounds.

But in reality, most employers - and all good employers - will try to fulfil the requirements of an OH assessment. Especially if the individual may have additional protections under the Equality Act - not just because of MH disability, but also through maternity and being a woman.

Please approach OH for an assessment. And please be honest with them about your health. It is likely you will be able to work with OH and your employer to find a mutually acceptable solution that helps you recover. Good luck.

And to reassure you, even if your employer does take the hardball route, they cannot summarily dismiss you. There will be a process that they have to go through to assess your capability to do the job that can take many weeks, or in some cases, months. So you will have the opportunity to decide what you want to do, look around at alternative options etc.

Would your manager be open to you working part of your compressed days remotely? Or is it that they want you on site?

If their offer is 4 longer days and one non-working day, but potentially your only issue is the timing of the longer days not the length of them that doesn't seem an impossible proposal? (Since you say dropping 4 hours is about trying to make timings work rather than you can't manage the extra 4 hours).

Or just to go back and say "ok, I would be happy to work that many hours on 4 days but can we discuss the pattern on those days?"

Whether that's changing how your lunch break is dealt with (some people have arrangements to take theirs at/towards the end of the day, collect children, and then work a final 2-3 hours from home) or simply working a small portion of those days remotely.

Finding a way to be creative about it is probably going to get the best solution than taking it on as a battle - because aside from anything else that might make your manager dig his heels in and get defensive.

The point is these requests are considered

Maybe have an actual discussion with your employer to see if there is a different working pattern that they can accommodate and which suits you.

I do feel for you. I work part time due to disability. I'm fortunate that my flexible working request was approved as I could evidence how the business would not be too adversely affected by my reduction in hours and how it could be accommodated. They also accepted my comments.

You have two problems. Your immediate health needs and your health in the future.

I would ask your GP to provide a fit note which specifically states that the hours that you need in order to be able to work in the short term. If your employer can't meet those terms you are declared unfit for work and so you can focus on your well-being to get you hopefully back to FT working.

If your employer can accommodate the changes for a period of 1 month you may be able to comment on how well it has worked for example if you had met your targets etc you would have more information to support your claim.

If you speak to OH they will not offer an opinion on whether the EA applies they usually say it may apply as they are not legal advisers. The OH may give recommendations but the employer is not bound by them.

I used to work a split week and it was much much more stressful than working full time. We also have a limit of one flexible working request a year so it's important to make sure what you're requesting would work for you because you might be surprised that it doesn't. Trial periods are for both parties.

*If it is about staff shortages then your manager is being very short sighted as surely it's better to have you 34 hours a week than lose you to a more flexible employer.
Perhaps, but objectively it does depend on the value you bring to an organisation. Some people are worth keeping, others less so. There’s a very good podcast I’ll try and look it out, on negotiating workplace benefits and pay rises and it makes the point your value is more that the work you do- some people add a lot in terms of culture, team spirit, etc and are therefore worth more. Others might do the work, but cause drama or negativity and therefore even though they’re getting tasks done they are worth less.

I’m not saying you are or aren’t like this- I honestly have no idea- but no one is irreplaceable, so I’m not sure the attitude of it’s better to give me my 4 hours than to lose me completely is quite correct

@formalineadeline

Would your manager be open to you working part of your compressed days remotely? Or is it that they want you on site?

If their offer is 4 longer days and one non-working day, but potentially your only issue is the timing of the longer days not the length of them that doesn't seem an impossible proposal? (Since you say dropping 4 hours is about trying to make timings work rather than you can't manage the extra 4 hours).

Or just to go back and say "ok, I would be happy to work that many hours on 4 days but can we discuss the pattern on those days?"

Whether that's changing how your lunch break is dealt with (some people have arrangements to take theirs at/towards the end of the day, collect children, and then work a final 2-3 hours from home) or simply working a small portion of those days remotely.

Finding a way to be creative about it is probably going to get the best solution than taking it on as a battle - because aside from anything else that might make your manager dig his heels in and get defensive.

Ideally they want staff on site. But I can explore if there is a way for me to work those 4 hours remotely.

@BobbinHood

Other people’s flexible working requests are irrelevant if they were approved before yours. Sounds like you work in an in-demand role, perhaps seeking a new PT position elsewhere might work better.

Actually this isn't true. Its perfectly legal and reasonable to say that in the business there is only the facility for x staff to work flexibly and when that facility is used up then no more staff can do it....like not letting everybody to go on leave at once.

What does your Union say? If not a member of one, please join ASAP and get advice.

I found in the public sector some of the problem is because headcount is looked at by number of people rather than total FTE. So I used to have a cap in the number of people in my team and if somebody reduced their hours, it was hard for me to be able to justify recruiting to make up the resource. More recently it has been at FTE level, which means I could have an extra person to "make up" the reduced hours of three other members of staff.

100% get this, I really struggle with separation anxiety and if my part time request had been refused I’m not sure what I would have done.

If they aren’t giving you want you want, I would look to move roles if possible.

You can challenge it if you want but they will probably come back with them none sense why it’s been declined plus add to your stress.

Keep flagging your mental health and issues with management then if you go off on sick it shouldn’t be a surprise.

Sending you a massive hug

I had accommodated hours refused at work recently despite OH recommending I was given them.

Mine is due to the after effects of cancer treatment. I had a supporting letter from my GP too.

I was annoyed as other people have previously been accommodated due to reasons not even to do with their own health.

I took it higher and got my union involved and it's now been agreed.

I hope you can sort something.

It really doesn’t sound like you are being treated unfairly, especially as they’ve made the counter off of compressed hours to still give you the extra day off which is what you’ve said you need for your recovery. The added issue of your childcare provider is not the same issue. It’s unfair but I don’t think it’s their fault.

Is there any option for you to start work earlier to compress the hours rather than finishing later? Or moving childcare provider as that’s clearly an issue here.

I used to work in the public sector. We could self-refer to Occ Health, can you do that? It allows you to have a more private conversation with OH. (if your manager refers you, OH have to report back with specific info but that's not the case if you refer yourself}. It's almost like you need a phased return to work, which would be offered after sick leave (I know you haven't been off sick).
Focus on what you can do, what will work, and approach it on the basis that it's to support you back to FT hours. This is a temporary situation.
Good luck.

a fully day off per week would help massively with my recovery (this view is supported by MH professionals working with me since my baby's birth).

Did you provide evidence of this when you submitted your request? Are you in a union?

HNRTT but perhaps an attitude of 'it's not fair because Joe Bloggs works this pattern' might not be helpful given that has been agreed and they are presumably looking at the balance of staffing and demand based on current work patterns. The alternatives would be not to agree any flexible working they employer could cope with in case someone else wants it in future or to cancel someone's flexible working on which they've based their domestic arrangements because someone else wants the same. Neither seem fairer or better to me, nor legally sound in the UK.

I would have a discussion whether remote working might work or an in confidence chat if you haven't already and if you are comfortable setting out the medical reasons why you want this and why they might want to look at making 'more than reasonable adjustments' in the circumstances.

Good luck.

@girlmom21

a fully day off per week would help massively with my recovery (this view is supported by MH professionals working with me since my baby's birth).

Did you provide evidence of this when you submitted your request? Are you in a union?

I didn't provide evidence but I referenced this in my application. I am going to approach my MH team for this evidence though. Incidentally my manager is fully aware that I am under the care of a MH team currently.

No I'm not in a union. I need to join one I think.

Could you go via occupational health? In general a request for reductions in working hours for health reasons is taken more seriously if made by occupational health.

Hi OP, given the nature of your illness and the length of time you have been ill, could this be classed as a disability? If so then the request could fall under reasonable adjustments rather than flexible working, which may be easier to implement especially if you are in a large organisation- the 'reasonable' provision is company wide, not just within your team. If you haven't already had an occ health review this would be the first step

@careerchangemaybe

No, but they would consider whether they can continue to employ her and may dismiss her on the grounds of ill-health if she can't fulfil the contract.

Is this legal?!

HR Director here.

It absolutely is, provided the right process is followed.

Could you offer to work the key 4 hours remotely over the weekend, say 2 on Sat and 2 on Sun?

Then look for another job that fits your needs better.

Good luck, keep battling on, it is worth it.

I think you should speak to Occupational Health. You have legitimate health needs that working full time could exacerbate. They may be able to advise and then recommend less hours for you. Good luck.

@careerchangemaybe definitely change one. I know someone who was on a stage 3 disciplinary but because OH had recommended changes the employer had rejected the union rep got them to end all disciplinary proceedings and do what the professionals had suggested

@SeaToSki

Could you offer to work the key 4 hours remotely over the weekend, say 2 on Sat and 2 on Sun?

Then look for another job that fits your needs better.

Good luck, keep battling on, it is worth it.

Yes I'm seriously considering this. Only issue will be on my OH's working weekends - he has to work every other weekend. I'd have no childcare on those weekends and would have to rely on my baby napping to get some work done! But it's not impossible, just needs a bit of planning and problem solving.