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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

School refusing leave of absence for DD - WWYD?

40 replies

Catkitkat · 08/02/2022 18:13

DD just auditioned for something really special within her field of interest, there were four rounds of auditions and she gained a place, the success ratio is approximately 1/12 so this is a huge deal for her. She needs three days off school for this.

This performance has an outreach aspect as they perform in special needs schools etc - they are an official provider for the Duke of Edinburgh award (DD is still too young to benefit from this particular aspect but just to give you an idea).

I’ve tried to reach the school since two months now to ask for permission but no response to any of my four emails + 1 phone call. She needs written permission to perform so I have no other options, I couldn’t call her in sick on those days even if I wanted to.

I don’t have any right to a reply do I? Or can I request that they respond and either decline or accept this? It feels so desperately sad to have DD miss out on something she has worked so hard for, it’s even worse when her school can’t even be bothered to reply.

OP posts:
lunar1 · 08/02/2022 21:02

The children's licensing team in your area could really help you here. My children have had licenses multiple times with no problems and the school were really supportive. The social worker in charge in our area said she takes a very dim view of schools limiting children's opportunities in this way.

She said the only time she doesn't support it is if a child has had repeated poor behaviour or significant unauthorised absence, but even then she tries to work to support them and does some goal setting so they can still participate.

Her philosophy is that these experiences can be enriching and educational for all children and are great opportunities, opening up different prospects for childrens futures. If you were in my area she would support you with the school.

bakebeans · 08/02/2022 22:02

@Catkitkat my daughter did production at school. Emailing didn’t work. I had to fill a specific form in as it was filed in my daughters records

Catkitkat · 09/02/2022 08:47

@lunar1

The children's licensing team in your area could really help you here. My children have had licenses multiple times with no problems and the school were really supportive. The social worker in charge in our area said she takes a very dim view of schools limiting children's opportunities in this way.

She said the only time she doesn't support it is if a child has had repeated poor behaviour or significant unauthorised absence, but even then she tries to work to support them and does some goal setting so they can still participate.

Her philosophy is that these experiences can be enriching and educational for all children and are great opportunities, opening up different prospects for childrens futures. If you were in my area she would support you with the school.

Thank you, that’s very helpful.
OP posts:
Comefromaway · 09/02/2022 09:31

Thanks, the production is doing all of this for the children, they say they only need a letter from her school granting her permission, plus some additional paperwork I’m filling out

They don't actually need the letter from school. If the local authority licensing team know what they are doing they should get the school permission directly. But they can and should still issue a licence even without school permission. I used to write to the school as a matter of courtesy.

Vie8126 · 09/02/2022 09:44

My daughter gets odd TV and recording work when she moved school and I needed a letter authorising an absence for licence purposes (the production team or agent normally apply for the licence here) I just called explained the situation and asked to speak to the secondary school attendance officer, their name and email address - I'm not sure why after 5 failed emails and it being so important you haven't called already? (sorry if you have and I've missed that part!)

Marmm · 09/02/2022 09:47

Can you phone and ask them to check they have to email as you've emailed 5 times in 2 months so are worried it's stuck in spam

MrsSkylerWhite · 09/02/2022 09:50

Catkitkat

MamaTutu2
@Catkitkat Go into the office and ask to talk to the head or the attendance officer?”

Parents are not allowed in the school building due to covid…”

Really surprised to read that. Are you in the UK?

Waspie · 09/02/2022 09:58

MrsSkylerWhite. I don't think this is uncommon. My son's school don't allow parents in at the moment either. Neither do the rest of the schools in the academy trust group, and most of the secondary schools in the borough too. We are in the South East of England.

Comefromaway · 09/02/2022 09:58

This is the nuclear option if all else fails and should be sent only after speaking to your local authority

Dear XXX (LEA),

Thank you for taking the time to talk to me last XXXXX. As discussed with you, I believe XXXXX, Children Administrator for XXXXX PRODUCTION, will apply for a licence for my daughter XXXX to participate in their production XXXXX from xxxx to xxxx, with rehearsal starting on xxxxx.

Attached is the letter from Mr XXXXX, Headteacher of XXXXX, stating that they don't allow time off school to pupils who ask to take part in Performing Arts. The decision is taken without considering if the child is in target (if not above) the national standards for academic results or for number of absence, and without taking in consideration the educational benefits of the project, neither the professional opportunity which is recognised by one of the biggest industry in London and that will be useful later on when apply to University or developing any kind of career in the performing arts (not just acting but in the creative or administrative side of the industry). YOU WOULD NEED TO ALTER THIS PARAGRAPH TO STATE THAT YOU HAVE NO RESPONSE AT ALL FROM THE SCHOOL & MAKE IT RELEVANT TO YOU.

The reason of my letter is that I fear that the lack of permission from XXXX school can jeopardise the chance for my daughter to be part of what I believe is an amazing educational and professional opportunity.

To have a consistent approach to this matter is a well-known problem. As stated by The National Network for Children in Employment and Entertainment (NNCEE), which your office is a member (IF YOUR LEA IS A MEMBER< PLEASE CHECK), they are "dedicated to the continual development and implementation of ‘good practice’ issues for children engaged in employment and taking part in public performances". Furthermore they "are also committed to what they believe as the right of children to access opportunity. We recognise that a consistent approach by all local authorities will inevitably lead to providing more, as well as, better outcomes and opportunities for children." They recognise "the difficulties faced by productions where there is a different response in various parts of the country, and can mean that one child may take part and another may not. This is unfair on productions, but more significantly it is unfair to the child." "The so called ‘postcode lottery’, must be extinguished", they say.

I would add that this would be less so if the licensing authorities would make use and enforce the powers the law grant to them, as per Children and Young Persons Act 1963 chapter 37 (4) :

" The power to grant licences under this section shall be exercisable subject to such restrictions and conditions as the Secretary of State may by regulations made by statutory instrument prescribe and a local authority shall not grant a licence for a child to do anything unless they are satisfied that he is fit to do it, that proper provision has been made to secure his health and kind treatment and that, having regard to such provision (if any) as has been or will be made therefor, his education will not suffer; but if they are so satisfied, in the case of an application duly made for a licence under this section which they have power to grant, they shall not refuse to grant the licence.

And in chapter 37 section 7 “A licence under this section shall specify the times, if any, during which the child in respect of whom it is granted may be absent from school for the purposes authorised by the licence; and for the purposes of the enactments relating to education a child who is so absent during any times so specified shall be deemed to be absent with leave granted by a person authorised in that behalf by the managers, governors or proprietor of the school”

The Statutory Instrument that followed the Act, The Children (Performances) Regulations 1968, states chapter 2 (1) "The licensing authority may make such inquiries as they consider necessary to enable them to be satisfied that they should grant a licence as required by section 37(4) of the Act, and in particular they may request a report from the head teacher in respect of the child."

It seems to me that the licensing authority, in order to gather all the necessary data to form its valuation on the request, can ask the school a report on the child in respect, presumably, to his/her school's results and number of absences and NOT the school's opinion on Performing Arts.

It seems to me that even in case the school could produce poor results and attendance for the pupil (which is absolutely not the case of XXXX), still the Local Authority have discretionary judgment on the case and decides (if the request satisfies the conditions imposed by the Act in relation to the welfare and the education of the child) that it is indeed an opportunity for the child not to be missed and licence must be granted.

In fact, the relevance of the independent judgement of the Local Authority finds confirmation in chapter 39 (6) where it says "Where a local authority refuse an application for a licence under section 37 of this Act or revoke or, otherwise than on the application of the holder, vary such a licence they shall state their grounds for doing so in writing to the applicant or, as the case may be, the holder of the licence; and the applicant or holder may appeal to a magistrates’ court". The right to appeal is against the Local Authority's decision not the school's letter.

I believe the Legislator gave the licensing authority to the Local Education Authority and not to the schools to avoid potential that different "opinions" could create disparity among the children.

Yours faithfully,

UndertheCedartree · 09/02/2022 10:00

Is there perhaps a form online you have to fill in? That's how they do it at my DD's school.

Comefromaway · 09/02/2022 10:09

IMPORTANT NOTE

The Statutory Instrument is now The Children (Performances and Activities) (England) Regulations 2014 NOT 1963 and it is now Part 2 (7) which now states "7.—(1) Where the licensing authority considers that the information provided by the applicant is insufficient to enable it to decide whether to issue a licence or whether to issue a licence subject to conditions, the licensing authority must request additional information or documentation to enable it to make such a decision.

(2) In particular, the licensing authority may—

(b)request a report from the head teacher or principal of the school that the child attends;"

wowbutter · 09/02/2022 19:19

Sorry, I don't understand why you don't just take her out? Ring the day she's off and say she isn't coming in she's competing?
Why all the hand wringing?

Redarrow2017 · 09/02/2022 19:41

This reply has been withdrawn

Message from MNHQ: This post has been withdrawn

Bazinga007 · 09/02/2022 21:59

I always find that asking for the chair of governors email address always gets the heads attention.

Comefromaway · 09/02/2022 22:30

@wowbutter

Sorry, I don't understand why you don't just take her out? Ring the day she's off and say she isn't coming in she's competing? Why all the hand wringing?
Because legally you need a performance licence in order to take part in anything where school can be missed.
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