To be annoyed that Green travel is so VERY expensive?

[toconclude]

Trying to avoid flying to Spain but the price of a car ferry is FOUR times the cost of return flights for two - plus the cost of petrol each way. It's just not economic if you want to visit more than one place. Grr.

Update: looks like train and bus then. About twice/thrice the price and days rather than hours, but there you go.

I think you need to chill out @toconclude you sound quite uptight.

Yes, it's very frustrating. Especially when travelling in this country when it would also be quicker and more convenient. YANBU to be annoyed, and many will share that annoyance. I hope you enjoy your holiday, and you might consider one of the better offsetting schemes (lots of articles on which are better) if you would like.

Depending on how you plan to get about when you're there you might find that the ferry works out good value overall. We're looking at paying £1000 for 2 weeks car hire in the summer (never seen it anywhere near this expensive before).

TBH with over a thousand coal powered in China and more still being built I don't think we've got a chance of stopping climate change. Only 2.1% of all human induced co2 is from global aviation - 20% is from coal power stations.

You might as well make the most of the world because you flying or not flying is unlikely to impact anything - even there being no flights anywhere for any reason is not going to solve the issue.

Road emissions make up 74% of the total transport emissions, aviation only 12%. I don't drive so I'll be going abroad on holiday every opportunity I get!

Lots of posters making statements here about trains etc and their relative carbon footprint - worth actually checking out the comparison. Here is one example calculator www.lner.co.uk/tickets-savings/the-best-way-to-travel/our-commitment-to-the-environment/#calculator

Not to mention trains are also heavily polluting, especially in the UK due to not being fully electrified, so huge amounts of travel miles are powered by diesel, even long distances "under the wires" when there isn't electrification at one end or the other of the journey.

To take London to Glasgow and back as an example (from Mike Berners-Lee's book), travelling by train emits 64kg, an electric car 148kg, a (good) petrol car 237kg, by plane 368kg, in an SUV 1,020kg.

So yes, the train is by far the cleanest way. The balance will be even more that way for a journey through France to Spain because the French electric grid is far less reliant upon fossil fuels.

When are you trying to go? Presumably not during the school hols?

Ferry to Santander as a foot passenger then interrail tickets?

Or just fly and donate some money to a carbon offset scheme?

@DdraigGoch

Not to mention trains are also heavily polluting, especially in the UK due to not being fully electrified, so huge amounts of travel miles are powered by diesel, even long distances "under the wires" when there isn't electrification at one end or the other of the journey.

To take London to Glasgow and back as an example (from Mike Berners-Lee's book), travelling by train emits 64kg, an electric car 148kg, a (good) petrol car 237kg, by plane 368kg, in an SUV 1,020kg.

So yes, the train is by far the cleanest way. The balance will be even more that way for a journey through France to Spain because the French electric grid is far less reliant upon fossil fuels.

London to Glasgow is mostly operated by electric trains, so will be lower emission. Try London to Edinburgh, or London to Anglesey, which are diesel hauled even though most the journey is under wires. Or the cross country Edinburgh to South West England, again, diesel hauled. You really can't just pick and choose the "best" journeys for your argument.

Fly and then plant a tree. It seems to work for everyone else. In fact take a private jet and plant 2 tress - sorted

trees even

Prices have definitely gone up, presumably like many industries they are trying to recoup losses from the pandemic. You can earn and spend nectar points on the Eurostar by the way. Have you looked at being a foot passenger on the ferry and renting a car when you get there?

Do you really have to go abroad? Yes you’ve been “stuck” for two years in the UK but why not visit somewhere different? Maybe get the ferry to Northern Ireland.

Me personally, I don’t have any children, don’t eat meat and only drive my car when necessary so I am not going to stop travelling by plane

Yes! I was looking at going to the south of France by Eurostar and TGV but it is loads cheaper to fly.

You haven't been "stuck" in the UK for two years, you live here (presumably).

As a PP said, you can only have two of green, cheap, or abroad.

@user1497207191 Glasgow was used as an example because I had the figures to hand, no cherry-picking involved. OP is going to Spain which is a fully electrified route via Paris.

Any train going from King's Cross to Edinburgh will be running on electric, as are most from Euston.

As there are few through services between London and North Wales at the moment, your trip to Anglesey with almost certainly involve a change at Crewe so you'll be running on electric until there. Even with the diesel usage between there and Holyhead, plus the emissions of the ferry (most of which attributed to the freight, given that lorries are most of the traffic these days, foot passengers hardly register), I'd be willing to bet that Sailrail still beats flying to Dublin hands-down.

If you want me to look up a comparison between rail, cars and planes for Edinburgh to Plymouth, then it may take me a while. You can significantly reduce the diesel mileage though by avoiding Crosscountry's direct trains and going either via London, or via Preston.

They sure are, you also have to give up your bodily autonomy. I'm happy with UK holidays. If I cared so much for the environment and didn't need to go to Spain, I wouldn't go.

Well of course green travel is financially expensive - the cheap financial cost of non green travel is offset by the environmental cost, and vice versa. You CANNOT have it all 😂😂😂 I'm amazed at your age you haven't realised that 🤦🏻‍♀️

@DdraigGoch

Because carbon-offsetting flights is just greenwashing.
www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/golden-age-of-greenwash/

Did you read the bit on flights in this article?

Even Greenpeace say its better than nothing, EJ using the money raised to try and stop logging in the Amazon, of course its not perfect but is it better to allow the loggers to carry on destroying rain forest?

[quote Alexandra2001]@DdraigGoch

Because carbon-offsetting flights is just greenwashing.
www.greenpeace.org.uk/news/golden-age-of-greenwash/

Did you read the bit on flights in this article?

Even Greenpeace say its better than nothing, EJ using the money raised to try and stop logging in the Amazon, of course its not perfect but is it better to allow the loggers to carry on destroying rain forest?[/quote]
It is still preferable to find an alternative to that flight. By all means make a donation alongside not-flying. But don't fly and kid yourself that it's not so bad.

We travel by eurotunnel and rive to France / Spain / Germany etc. Hybrid car. For 4 of us it is about the same cost as flights in July for the train, petrol and tolls. We generally stay somewhere on route for a night or two but that's part of the holiday. It works out as two days of long drives at the start and finish and DH and I take it in turns. .

@DdraigGoch Flights count for approx 2% of global emissions... so no, flights aren't that bad. Agri/forestry is 18%, energy used in houses 10%

Insulate Britain may have used extreme tactics but they weren't wrong & had we acted far earlier on household energy consumption, millions wouldn't be facing fuel poverty.

[quote Alexandra2001]@DdraigGoch Flights count for approx 2% of global emissions... so no, flights aren't that bad. Agri/forestry is 18%, energy used in houses 10%

Insulate Britain may have used extreme tactics but they weren't wrong & had we acted far earlier on household energy consumption, millions wouldn't be facing fuel poverty.[/quote]
Aviation makes up around 9% of UK emissions. That's no small number when half of the country doesn't fly at all and many of them are avoidable - traveling to France/Belgium/Netherlands can be done quicker than travelling to Preston; airfreighted produce is unnecessary; all of those empty planes in the air are utterly obscene.

Aviation makes up around 9% of UK emissions. That's no small number when half of the country doesn't fly at all and many of them are avoidable - traveling to France/Belgium/Netherlands can be done quicker than travelling to Preston; airfreighted produce is unnecessary; all of those empty planes in the air are utterly obscene

Don't disagree with you.
We are all responsible, the purchases we make, heating, travel, clothing and holidays.
We need global action, i don't know all the details but the EU 's Green Deal is possibly one way forward.
Trading bloc's and large countries can set agenda's, force change, make FTA's based on environmental concerns... why should i not fly to Mallorca when our Govt scraps deals with the Europe but makes new ones to import goods from NZ/Aus and vice versa?

My point is that not flying to Spain will make no difference to climate change or global emissions.