Let's do the math for Kirsty regarding an affordable home

[kirstyalslap]

I'm sure everyone has heard that kirsty Allsopp has came out saying that people can afford homes if they only cut out netflix, the gym and takeaway coffees.

I just worked out a meal deal costs £3 a day. X that by 5 days a week 52 weeks a year is £720. Netflix is £8 for 2 screens (?) so times that by 12 months is £96 a year.
Let's add a £20 takeaway every 2 weeks for good measure. £520. Gym costs £14 a month so £168 a year.

So in one year of cutting back on netflix, lunch for work and takeaways I can save £1504
Wow
Now I need 14000 for a deposit so I'm only 10 years away (probably a little but more actually including fees.)

Right now let's think about increase in property value.
My parents bought their house 8 years ago for £90 thousand. A massive 2 reception with 4 bed and 2 huge gardens with a drive.
Bad condition.
Last year the neighbours sold for £230k
This year the other neighbours has been valued at £280k. My parents are thinking of selling for approx £290k.
So in 8 years their house has increased by £200k
(this hurts me as I started saving 8 years ago, nearly 9 and was looking at saving for a smaller house for about 80k needed 4k at the time and had a 5 year plan to get there. No family helping with deposit)

£90k now would get you nothing at all.
Also you need a 10% deposit.
Also rents back then was £500pcm for 2 bed flat. Now they are £700+pcm for same flat.

So how can we do it? How? Please tell me!

Oh also, everyone I know saving for a house has already cut out take away, meal deals, gym (first to go come on!) and much much more.
Batch cooking, shopping around for deals, having friends round rather than going out.
Every thing is rising in price now, I don't know how my children will afford to live away from us, it is scary because as much as we are okay now, we won't be able to have 3 grown adults living in one bedroom until they are in their 30s! Or will it be 40s or 50s by then?

@Mariposista

I cannot stand her 'live with your parents and save on rent' idea. And what about those parents who would quite like to enjoy their retirement/middle age without adult children living in the house for free?? (and I say this as the child, not the parent!)

I agree. Also DD and her DP are very welcome to come live with me for a couple of years to save a deposit....might make the 6 hour round trip to their work a bit tricky though.

If you're getting outraged, her comments weren't targeted at you.

I used to work with a young lad on a decent wage (c. £50k) who sunk over £1k in rent for a fancy flat (before adding on all the extra costs - council tax, energy, internet, etc), always had the latest phone, had an expensive gym membership (over £100), always ate out for lunch (c. £10/day), ate out/had takeaways/went to the pub regularly and always splashed the cash on his latest girlfriend (would think nothing of a casual £100 gift after only dating for a few months).

It's entirely his fault why he hasn't bought a property yet.

He didn't want to live in a house share because they weren't good enough for him, he didn't want to downgrade to a more basic gym, couldn't be bothered making packed lunches and never saved anything. As far as he was concerned, all income was disposable income...

If you're closer to the NMW range of salaries, have childcare costs and have already cut back, then yeah, I see why you think property is a pipe dream. Like I said... her comments aren't aimed at everyone.

It is all very well saying "move back in with parents" to save money.

But whenever MN is asked about a man who still lives with his parents, the answer tends to be "what a loser, dump him".

It's one or the other, we can't tell people to live with their parents whilst shaming them for it.

@misspercy

If you're getting outraged, her comments weren't targeted at you.

I used to work with a young lad on a decent wage (c. £50k) who sunk over £1k in rent for a fancy flat (before adding on all the extra costs - council tax, energy, internet, etc), always had the latest phone, had an expensive gym membership (over £100), always ate out for lunch (c. £10/day), ate out/had takeaways/went to the pub regularly and always splashed the cash on his latest girlfriend (would think nothing of a casual £100 gift after only dating for a few months).

It's entirely his fault why he hasn't bought a property yet.

He didn't want to live in a house share because they weren't good enough for him, he didn't want to downgrade to a more basic gym, couldn't be bothered making packed lunches and never saved anything. As far as he was concerned, all income was disposable income...

If you're closer to the NMW range of salaries, have childcare costs and have already cut back, then yeah, I see why you think property is a pipe dream. Like I said... her comments aren't aimed at everyone.

Yes I think she was aiming at higher earning young people too. I doubt she knows anyone on nmw

I bought my first property, a flat in Croydon, for £55K in late 1980's when I was earning about £14.5 K, with a deposit of £5K half of which I got from my parents and had to pay back. That was very hard - I literally didn't spend 50p if there was any way not to, didn't socialise for years, didn't have a boyfriend because I never went out, couldn't have contemplated settling down or having kids until I was well into my 30s, walked miles to avoid paying a tube fare every single day. I wouldn't wish it on anyone, but that's what people mean when they say people don't do hardship. Avocados are just a euphemism for the rest of the things that are not totally 100% necessary and people's commitment to that level of sacrifice.

@misspercy

If you're getting outraged, her comments weren't targeted at you.

I used to work with a young lad on a decent wage (c. £50k) who sunk over £1k in rent for a fancy flat (before adding on all the extra costs - council tax, energy, internet, etc), always had the latest phone, had an expensive gym membership (over £100), always ate out for lunch (c. £10/day), ate out/had takeaways/went to the pub regularly and always splashed the cash on his latest girlfriend (would think nothing of a casual £100 gift after only dating for a few months).

It's entirely his fault why he hasn't bought a property yet.

He didn't want to live in a house share because they weren't good enough for him, he didn't want to downgrade to a more basic gym, couldn't be bothered making packed lunches and never saved anything. As far as he was concerned, all income was disposable income...

If you're closer to the NMW range of salaries, have childcare costs and have already cut back, then yeah, I see why you think property is a pipe dream. Like I said... her comments aren't aimed at everyone.

Look I did have a flatmate in 2018 whose boyfriend spent more money on his car than we did on rent and then complained that he still lived with his mum, but everyone else I know in their late twenties isn't that stupid. They are the exception and not the general rule.

The only reason we have a 4 bed house with a garden is because both of my husbands parents died and he inherited £70k, which was the deposit. Without this we would have been able to buy,m eventually, but a flat or a postage stamp new build. It's very very difficult without inheritance.

As Martin Lewis says; we need to stop celebrating house price rises.
We're all just paying more to the banks/building societies because we're borrowing more money, paying more to the estate agents and more to the government in stamp duty.

Nobody benefits unless your selling an inherited house or moving to an area where house prices have increased less than the area you're moving from.

It's a ridiculous ride that you can't get off.

@Mariposista

I cannot stand her 'live with your parents and save on rent' idea. And what about those parents who would quite like to enjoy their retirement/middle age without adult children living in the house for free?? (and I say this as the child, not the parent!)

It’s a convenient band aid that enables supporters of the current, corrupt and unsustainable system (let’s guess, it probably benefits them) to excuse the inequalities.

The difference between now and then is that parents were not your ticket to home ownership. Your wages were. It’s that simple, and anyone who wants to attempt to excuse or hammer this into an acceptable shape is exhibiting wilful ignorance - or else profiting from it.

It is horrifying to conceive of a society where only watching your family die can afford you a home.
It isn’t acceptable to expect a 25-30 something couple to only be able to fund homeownership via inheritance or a parent remortgaging. This is utter, utter lunacy.

I think you are all being mean to Kirstie who is participating in a job, to encourage people to realise that if they aren't successful then it's their fault and not the structures. People need to realise they didn't work hard enough in school or in their employment or they aren't intelligent enough or they fritter away money on buying things that are marketed to them and whose spend makes the economy run. Some people 'make it' so anyone could, obviously. It's absolutely not the structures designed to favour the wealthy and powerful. QE led to asset price inflation as a side effect of doing everyone the favour of saving the economy, not that asset price inflation was the goal. Real incomes have been significantly cut for many workers since 2010 to save us by austerity because there was no other way that was acceptable. The side effect was to concentrate wealth in a richer, smaller group but again nothing to see here. It's our fault and we should own it, make ourselves more intelligent and work harder for lower incomes and not buy avocados, the work of the devil. That sushi, iphone, coffee and so on should be badges of shame for wastrels unless bought by someone successful in which case a deserved symbol of success.

This shit drives me wild.
DH earns 60k per year, on that we could not buy a 3 bedroom house in our area. We moved here because it was cheaper. In the time we saved £25,000 towards the deposit for a house, house prices had increased by about 50k. (I know this because the value of the house I live in had increased by as much)
This was over 4 years BTW.
Then covid happened and house prices have risen again.

No way can we keep up.

[quote Hibye23289]@RuthW yes its's possible because she lives with you to save,so ask her to save and save with bills and proper rent[/quote]
Yes she does now, but didn't for 4 years.

I am also aware of many younger people who already own, complaining of poverty and house prices. They blame high rents for the inequalities and the frantic, unhealthy obsession with ownership (and that;s,true!) whilst also admitting they’d rent out their own home for 3 times the mortgage value if they,could.

So which is it? You believe high rents are unfair, yet you are ok enacting them if you became a landlord.

Fucking hypocrisy, and that isn’t boomers, that’s from the mouths of millennials, who ought to know better.

People are happy to complain about inequality, until it benefits them.

The reason for this disconnect is our perpetual enabling of a custerfuck housing market and a national obsession/snobbery of one upmanship .and envy.

Let’s not forget the fact she’s relying on every adult to be able to stay with their parents rent free as well. This isn’t an option for many adults for various reasons, it certainly wasn’t for me.

I’m ‘lucky’ because I inherited from my mother, which I didn’t expect as we had a complicated relationship. But she had to die for this. I am having to move from Cornwall to Shetland, where I’ve never even been, cause it was the cheapest property I could find. For £35K I found a 100sqm 300 year old longhouse which has been used as a church. I don’t know how I will survive there, it’s extremely isolated, but locally I cannot afford a home on a care worker salary (exactly minimum wage)

There aren’t a lot of properties at these prices.

I recommend Kris Harbour on youtube, he built a hobbit house on his land for only £3K. I realise most people wouldn’t like to live like that or can’t afford land, but it’s interesting to see.

I think she meant don't waste money on frivolities. We saved, bought our house with no help, had rooms we weren't using so took in lodgers until we had kids. I think it's a mindset. Yes it is more expensive but it can be done.

@misspercy

If you're getting outraged, her comments weren't targeted at you.

I used to work with a young lad on a decent wage (c. £50k) who sunk over £1k in rent for a fancy flat (before adding on all the extra costs - council tax, energy, internet, etc), always had the latest phone, had an expensive gym membership (over £100), always ate out for lunch (c. £10/day), ate out/had takeaways/went to the pub regularly and always splashed the cash on his latest girlfriend (would think nothing of a casual £100 gift after only dating for a few months).

It's entirely his fault why he hasn't bought a property yet.

He didn't want to live in a house share because they weren't good enough for him, he didn't want to downgrade to a more basic gym, couldn't be bothered making packed lunches and never saved anything. As far as he was concerned, all income was disposable income...

If you're closer to the NMW range of salaries, have childcare costs and have already cut back, then yeah, I see why you think property is a pipe dream. Like I said... her comments aren't aimed at everyone.

I’m presuming you were ok with housesharing yourself? How did you feel about it? In my area the rent for a miserable room with a depressed bog and shower is over £700pcm.

15 yrs ago these HMO’s didn’t exist. I wonder why?

blogs.imf.org/2021/10/18/housing-prices-continue-to-soar-in-many-countries-around-the-world/

It's surprising it's not just a UK problem - as I thought a lot of our issues were around not building enough housing - or right type in right area - issue.

@Applesonthelawn That's a multiplier of less than 4, not a particularly substantial mortgage and a world apart from the difficulties first time buyers face now. My circumstances were similar to yours, I very much appreciate the advantage I had over people wishing to buy now.

@SirChenjins

You've also forgotten to mention that you just need to drive a second hand car (a few years old should do it) and cut back on your foreign holidays. Buy clothes on eBay and get your hair done at the local hairdressing college (y'know, the one everyone has in their town).

It's really all about priorities

Exactly. Our first house was in a very grotty area (East Ham), had an outside loo, a leaky roof and rotten floor. We had no holidays (certainly not abroad!), no TV, no mobile phones or other tech, no takeaways, no eating out, no car, no hairdressers. I bought my clothes and furniture from second hand shops.

We coped ok. I don't know ANY of my young relatives who would do this. Would you?

We are hoping in the next 6 years we maybe able to get a mortgage however I don't drink smoke do coffee out or buy lunches or have a gym membership I do have Netflix at £8 a month but when on min wage and have a ds to rise there is never much spare cash also don't drive us bus twice a week and walk everywhere else never buy new clothes ect I am in my 30s and my rent is more then a mortgage would ever cost on the same house I live in, the UK is screwed, there is a house I will possibly inherite in about 20 plus years time but I will give that to my ds as its the only way he will own a house otherwise

@FoggySpecs

I think she meant don't waste money on frivolities. We saved, bought our house with no help, had rooms we weren't using so took in lodgers until we had kids. I think it's a mindset. Yes it is more expensive but it can be done.

And in the 80’s my dad earned a massive wage, and could purchase several properties horses/stables and extra land. Why don’t people just do this? They’re so entitled

Just think what you can get if you just put the work in and use a cheaper phone!

Kirsty is part of the problem regarding house price inflation - she contributes to the "fetishism of housing" as a lifestyle rather than a need.
In fairness, it didn't start with her and she is a minor player overall but, as has been said above, rapid house price inflation is bad for an economy and we should be questioning the motives of its cheerleaders.

There probably is a valid wider point that due to low interest rates, money has lost its "value" somewhat and this is apparent in the spending habits of younger people. To suggest that monthly gym membership and brunch at weekends is the reason why young people are unable to afford a home is just silly.

Having a mortgage is not owning a home, it's being liable for a debt.

I have nothing to add that hasn’t already been said, except to congratulate the poster up thread who referred to KA as a “weapons grade plonker”