Let's do the math for Kirsty regarding an affordable home

[kirstyalslap]

I'm sure everyone has heard that kirsty Allsopp has came out saying that people can afford homes if they only cut out netflix, the gym and takeaway coffees.

I just worked out a meal deal costs £3 a day. X that by 5 days a week 52 weeks a year is £720. Netflix is £8 for 2 screens (?) so times that by 12 months is £96 a year.
Let's add a £20 takeaway every 2 weeks for good measure. £520. Gym costs £14 a month so £168 a year.

So in one year of cutting back on netflix, lunch for work and takeaways I can save £1504
Wow
Now I need 14000 for a deposit so I'm only 10 years away (probably a little but more actually including fees.)

Right now let's think about increase in property value.
My parents bought their house 8 years ago for £90 thousand. A massive 2 reception with 4 bed and 2 huge gardens with a drive.
Bad condition.
Last year the neighbours sold for £230k
This year the other neighbours has been valued at £280k. My parents are thinking of selling for approx £290k.
So in 8 years their house has increased by £200k
(this hurts me as I started saving 8 years ago, nearly 9 and was looking at saving for a smaller house for about 80k needed 4k at the time and had a 5 year plan to get there. No family helping with deposit)

£90k now would get you nothing at all.
Also you need a 10% deposit.
Also rents back then was £500pcm for 2 bed flat. Now they are £700+pcm for same flat.

So how can we do it? How? Please tell me!

Oh also, everyone I know saving for a house has already cut out take away, meal deals, gym (first to go come on!) and much much more.
Batch cooking, shopping around for deals, having friends round rather than going out.
Every thing is rising in price now, I don't know how my children will afford to live away from us, it is scary because as much as we are okay now, we won't be able to have 3 grown adults living in one bedroom until they are in their 30s! Or will it be 40s or 50s by then?

@ExConstance we lived like that with his mum for 3 years. so bought at 27 and 29...

I do think its harder for middle class people with higher expectations to do this. I know a lady with a 5 bed house and she expects her son to move out and be independent. She was shocked at my living conditions but then even more shocked at what we could afford to pay. He will never own unless she sells her house as she is not cash rich either. I don't think she will sell her house either so I guess he needs to either move out of London or marry a woman with financial backing...

She is insanely annoying and completely out of touch

She was making a point, it won't appear to absolutely everyone. There are however you get people who do cry they couldn't afford a house abs expect sympathy yet go through money like no-one else.

It was the case with one of my you h colleague. He indeed bought lunch and coffee every day, at least £10. He did have Netflix and sky sport and he and his partner were nembers of David Lloyd, £140 a month.

It wasn't just that though. They both had less than 4 years old cars, even though he could commute by train. He came regularly to work with new gadgets, new phones, new smart watches etc...

He claimed they couldn't save because of childcare cost and increase of living but when pointing out the spending, his views was that they worked very hard so deserved it.

He was a love guy, at the start of a good career, but genuinely believed he was entitled to all these luxuries (Inc. nice holidays, nice new clothes, going out once a week etc...) and to have extra to put towards a pension and save for a house deposit!

[quote onlychildhamster]@JustWonderingIfYou I bought in London and had zero cash from family. we did live rent free which I suppose is still financial help. But if i was filling out a survey and they asked 'did you receive a loan or cash from my parents/in-laws, i would still have to tick no' We saved £70k in 3 years.

We stayed in my DH's house with his mum and sisters, it was a 3 bed terraced so there was a lot of squeezing. I am not sure of the rental value of my DH's sister's room with most of her stuff still in the room (she had immigrated at the point) and the closet still full of her clothes![/quote]
My DS rents a room for £700 per month. Being able to live rent free is a huge luxury however tight it may feel. That just isn't an option for most people. I live in London and before we bought, our rent was £1700 a month. It is of course possible to save £20k a year if you don't have to pay any rent.

@MorningStarling

You're forgetting all those avocado toasts. There's the missing £100k or so, er, hang on...

And sushi!

Friend of my mum's once said 'all these young people not saving their money, they're spending it all on fancy food like SUSHI!'

She's completely out of touch with how hard it is to get on the housing ladder.
At least no ones mentioned mobile phones or Internet connection which some if the next generation seem to think are optional luxuries.

However as pp have said lots of places have meal deals for £3-4
....but no idea which gyms are £14/month. I paid £25/month for a council run gym about 15 years ago, and it was cheap then.

@adoreyou

I can't help but get the point she is making.... If you want something bad enough you will make the sacrifice to get it?

I know there are people in positions who are not able to save a thing. But a lot of people focus on creating the image they have this wonderful lifestyle, with new cars, holidays, new phones rather then do the hard work and save.

We were "lucky" in that we were buying at the time when 100% mortgages were available. But my god the mortgage payments were huge.... nearly £1000 a month for a 2 bed flat. So that meant for about 4 years we had no social life, packed lunches at work. Cheap phones. No car finance. We worked in London so people were always having "lunches" and going for drinks after work and we just had to say no.

If I wanted it enough, could I be a pop star or a brain surgeon - no. Could I buy a Castle? - No. So it's just fucking ridiculous to say "If you want something bad enough you will make the sacrifice to get it" Kirstie is just another one in a long line of tone deaf rich people making pronouncements about stuff they know nothing about in relation to the majority of people's lives.

This is also the idiot “feminist” who thinks young women should ditch prioritising their careers (and university) and focus on having children before their 30s. Sigh. Can we not cancel her already?! ;)

www.theguardian.com/tv-and-radio/2014/jun/02/kirstie-allsop-young-women-ditch-university-baby-by-27

You don't need any maths really, house price rises have outstripped salary rises. Simple as that.

I'm sure if you live like a hermit you will afford a deposit sooner. But if that's not just for a few years but until you're 30 or so, that's a very big chunk of youth spent not going out.

House prices have gone up because: banks, BTL landlords, underoccupation (mainly by older people who can't or won't downsize), lack of building.

I've just found a house similar to my first house.
It's beautifully renoated, and up for 125,000. 2 bed terrace, street parking, back yard, but bathroom upstairs.
I sold 15 years ago for 110, 000.
Prices aren't going bonkers everywhere. The country really is divided.

@adoreyou

I can't help but get the point she is making.... If you want something bad enough you will make the sacrifice to get it?

I know there are people in positions who are not able to save a thing. But a lot of people focus on creating the image they have this wonderful lifestyle, with new cars, holidays, new phones rather then do the hard work and save.

We were "lucky" in that we were buying at the time when 100% mortgages were available. But my god the mortgage payments were huge.... nearly £1000 a month for a 2 bed flat. So that meant for about 4 years we had no social life, packed lunches at work. Cheap phones. No car finance. We worked in London so people were always having "lunches" and going for drinks after work and we just had to say no.

I pay more than that now and my current flat was a one bed flat at the time. It is now a two bed flat but my mortgage is still more than £1k.

My flat (zone 2, SE London) was bought for £99k in 2007 by the previous owner. In 2016, it was £400k. That is not at all in line with earnings.

My parents bought a four bed detached house with a huge garden in a popular SE commuter town 25 years ago on a single freelance salary with two young children in tow for just over 150,000.

It's now worth over a million.

My husband and I bought our first tiny 2 bed in zone 3 for just over 400,000 5 years ago. It needed both of our salaries, inheritance and me living at home for a few years to get it and no children.

I've worked and saved since I got my first weekend job at 14, husband the same. No one I know has bought without help - whether that's living at home or parental loans or inheritance.

I think the point she is making is that when there is a will, there's a way, it just might not work with what young people see as good lifestyles.
I work with a couple of young people who complain that they will never get on the housing ladder, it transpires that they have lucked out with v cheap rent- 350/m. They are on a salary that increases each year and currently take home approx 1800/m. So, they could actually save quite a lot over the next couple of years, especially since their salary increases each year for another 4 years. But they do seem to think that they have been set up for failure.

I know this isn't the case for those who have to a pay a higher rent though, then that would be very hard.

Having parents or other family helping with free childcare helps a lot too. Can save an awful lot that way even if not living at home

I really can’t wait to move from the U.K. It is not good for my mental health. When I read complaints about the elderly living in big houses ( owners) that will not downsize soon enough it is really disturbing for me.

I only hear this in this country.

Me and DH toyed with the idea of moving away but a massive hurdle nobody remembers is it costs money to view houses far away DH would have had to take a day off work, paid for transportation and taken the children out of school for the day (too long to get them to school and back on time

Not to mention if we did move away we would have to Move school, leave family, friends, everything we know and start completely again.*

SO?   That's exactly what we did.  We went wherever  the work was.  Yes, househunting at long distance before the internet was bloody hard; we did it anyway.  No choice. No family , no friends, just ourselves and our kids.  It's all doable. 

People learn from that experience, acquire independence, resilience, self confidence, trust in each other, social adaptability, adventurous spirits, by living it. They become stronger, braver, more flexible; they acquire a wider horizon from broader experiences. Those are gifts our children acquired from our family lived example and it makes them powerful, successful, confident, strong. They understand what makes realtionships solid and longlasting and happy.

@Horriblewoman

My parents bought a four bed detached house with a huge garden in a popular SE commuter town 25 years ago on a single freelance salary with two young children in tow for just over 150,000.

It's now worth over a million.

My husband and I bought our first tiny 2 bed in zone 3 for just over 400,000 5 years ago. It needed both of our salaries, inheritance and me living at home for a few years to get it and no children.

I've worked and saved since I got my first weekend job at 14, husband the same. No one I know has bought without help - whether that's living at home or parental loans or inheritance.

We bought without help, without inheritance, and without parental contribution. So did our kids (within the last decade) .

I agree in certain areas that prices are totally out of reach and no amount of cutback will result in a deposit.
I do think some people prioritise area over getting on ladder. That’s fine but be honest it’s not you can’t it’s you can’t where you want.
Eg Manchester. South Manchester is expensive but Burnley to north has a train and express bus link. I’m sure most people would prefer lifestyle of Didsbury etc but it’s not you can’t buy, you can within an hour commute of city centre but it’s a deprived northern mill town. Newly refurbished apartments next to bus and train are £60,000 so achievable on a Manchester single graduate salary.
We were working in Salford and Manchester City centre and can remember liking the Salford quays flats but they were not in our reach in 1990s on 2 graduate salaries either rent or buy. We rented in crappy non fashionable area, then bought first house in deprived none fashionable town further out.
Parents of DD’s friend in nursery had come back from teaching abroad with 20,000 cash and wanted to buy mortgage free. It brought them to area (no ties to area) and they got a terrace. Same type of house now can be got for 40,000. She was a teacher so could work anywhere. They were like fish out of water but I often think how brave - how many people would be prepared to actually do it.

@Lolamento

I really can’t wait to move from the U.K. It is not good for my mental health. When I read complaints about the elderly living in big houses ( owners) that will not downsize soon enough it is really disturbing for me.

I only hear this in this country.

Wherever you go, your mental health goes with you.

I hadn't seen this pronouncement by Ms Allsop, but I am never unhappy to be offered another reason to despise her.

£14 for a gym membership? You sound as out of touch as Kirsty!

@Lolamento do you mean this in relation to poor attitudes towards the elderly in the U.K. ( I’m not clear why this country is bad for your mental health).

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

Can't help but think you are proving a point.....

Of course not everyone can be a "pop star" but if you can sing and enjoy there is nothing stopping you from singing.... whether that is in a choir or in a cover band or even busking.

Of course not everyone can live in a castle... just the same as not everyone can live in a 5 bed detached house...

It's called living within your means. As I say and some others have said, people see others with expensive houses, cars and gadgets and expect that they also "deserve" it.

I mean just look at the amount of people on twitter who are slating sarah Beany from daring to show how she spends her wealth!

It's financial wokerry.... I can't afford it so how dare you "show off" that you can....

@Lolamento the UK is the one of the few countries where people have different preferences as to housing type based on life stage. I have lived in 2 other countries and haven't seen this at least on such a large scale. In european cities, families, professionals and singles alike predominantly live in flats. In the UK, flat living is seen to be for young people, poor people or downsizers in assisted living residences. People want a house with garden when they have a family and this has been the case for many years. So of course many of the houses are inhabited by the elderly who had young families 30 years ago. They are not building any more of these family houses. In london most of the new builds are flats. A lot of the new build houses are very expensive and quite small.

In my experience, it is not that difficult to buy a 2 bed flat (even in London; the main problem is that most people who seem to want to buy flats in London are singles which make it more difficult). What is difficult is to buy the family home. It is hard to find larger 3 bed flats as the supply is limited but they are still cheaper and more attainable than the houses. I am open to apartment living which means that it was easier for me to buy. If i only wanted to buy the 3 bed semi detached in a lush green home counties suburb, i would possibly still be waiting (and I bought over 2 years ago).

*I just worked out a meal deal costs £3 a day. X that by 5 days a week 52 weeks a year is £720. Netflix is £8 for 2 screens (?) so times that by 12 months is £96 a year.
Let's add a £20 takeaway every 2 weeks for good measure. £520. Gym costs £14 a month so £168 a year. *

This goes further to illustrate the gulf between the haves and have-nots, because your estimates are rather less than hers might be.

Costa coffee could be £2.65 a time even without anything to eat with it. David Lloyd gym membership is £94.50 minimum per month. So we've got a huge difference between those buying these things at the top and bottom end of the range, before you even consider the fact that many people have never even considered gym membership or takeaway coffee that isn't a flask from home.