DT, salary and 30hrs free childcare

[SteppingOverTheMark]

Hello,

I wasn’t sure where to post so hoping here is okay for the traffic.

I have DT that will be 3yo this summer and currently go to nursery one day a week. As they’re summer born, they almost lose a year of nursery compared to winter born children so we have them down to attend nursery 3 days a week from September to get them ready for school the following year (they also lacked socialisation due to lockdown).

I work in a school for 15hrs a week, term time only. My salary is £6192 after pension contribution, NI, etc. but this is spread evenly across the year so it works out at £516 p/m. Is this the figure I would use for when looking into the 30hrs free childcare which means I’d have to find more hours to qualify (which is stated on the website as you have to earn on average over £1853 over the next three months to qualify)?

Or, would I use my actual hourly rate as this would mean I earn roughly £635p/m over some months (but less over others). Would that put me over the qualifying threshold or not?

Is the salary taken into account before or after tax, etc?

Childcare is already so expensive with DT along with the area we’re in…even if we do manage to qualify for 30hrs free a week then our nursery fees will still be £750p/m 😵‍💫

I contact CAB but they didn’t really help, just told me to apply and see what was said but I need to potentially plan/look for more hours if need be.

Thank you!

Don't you have to work 16 hours or more a week?
I don't quote me though....I'm sure loads of peeps will know better than me

I rang the helpline about this a few years ago. It was the full gross salary that counted, not taking pension contributions or NI into account. I had to work more hours a week to qualify by the skin of my teeth.

@kitcat15

Don't you have to work 16 hours or more a week? I don't quote me though....I'm sure loads of peeps will know better than me

I think it’s that you have to earn at least what the minimum wage would come to for 16 hours a week of work. If you get paid more, you could work fewer hours and still qualify I believe.

And I’m almost certain it’s pre-tax salary. If you earn over £100k pre tax you lose the entitlement, so I’d assume all salary requirements are pre tax.

@kitcat15

Don't you have to work 16 hours or more a week? I don't quote me though....I'm sure loads of peeps will know better than me

No, the level is set at the equivalent of 16 hours work at the national minimum wage. It doesn't matter how many hours you work to get it. It's hard for school support staff who are paid term time only, but the average is spread over the whole year.

Thank you all for your replies.

@kitcat15 it’s based on salary, I didn’t know either!

@Callmecordelia is that annual or monthly gross salary?
I don’t know how to work my monthly salary out…if I do it based on my hourly rate then I’d earn over in Jan, Feb and March but we’ll under July, August and September. If that makes sense?

@SickAndTiredAgain I do think it’s wrong to be based on salary. I know a consultant that would only need to work one day a month to qualify based on salary 🙄

You're not working enough hours or getting paid enough to get the 30hrs. Working 15hrs a week term-time only works out as an average of 11hrs a week throughout the year. So you'd need to work a bit more (e.g. 5hrs a week term time) or get a higher paying job for the hours you're doing.

But your kids should get the 15hrs free childcare even without you working - that's for all kids once they're 3yrs old.

@Callmecordelia thank you. It just looks as though I work less hours than I do, for less money on that basis. So I need to find some more hours that equate to about £100p/m.

Rental income wouldn’t count, would it?
I think I’d need to set up as a business which means I’d likely lose more in fees than I’d gain.

You reconfirm for every 3 months. You'd answer yes for Jan, Feb and March. In March they ask you if you'll earn enough in April, May, June and you would have to say no. For example.

@Rumplestrumpet
Thank you, that adds clarity!
Unfortunately, the 15hrs a week only gives us one day a week free plus a balance to pay at their nursery.

Sorry, I forgot to add that I have an income of £575p/m from a rental property. That would change things though, would it?

Would I have to set up a property maintenance company and salary myself?
Not really worth it for what we’d gain…if you can even do that.

@ToykotoLosAngeles
Ah, I didn’t realise that - thank you!
So I need to pick up quite a few more hours over the summer then 😬

I knew mumsnet would be more helpful than the CAB!

Your eligibility is recalculated every 3 months.

“For example, over the next 3 months you expect to earn at least £1,853.28 - the National Living Wage for people over 23.”

So I’m guessing January, February and March you may just qualify. But June, July, August you won’t because those months you won’t earn £1853.

Sorry OP I wasn't clear - it's 16 hours per week at NMW or equivalent.

I could only do it by working 18 hours term time with 36 hours holiday working. I was also caught out by the NMW increase, but fortunately if you fall out of qualifying for the 30 hours there's a grace period, and I just got DS to school. Sorry OP.

I assume you are completing a tax return each year for your rental property income? If so I think that’s allowed to count?

@Troublesometooth
Thank you - with my salary being split equally over the 12 months then I would still be earning £516p/m despite school holidays.

So, basically, i need to find an extra hour of work per week?

I think my friend is looking for an office cleaner once a week so that would work?

It’s unfair that it’s judged on minimum wage for over 23s, what about younger mums that work?!

@Troublesometooth

I assume you are completing a tax return each year for your rental property income? If so I think that’s allowed to count?

I think the profit would but it would need to start being declared as something other than rental income I.e. self-employed earnings. You get a year grace period if you are newly self-employed.

@Troublesometooth

Your eligibility is recalculated every 3 months.

“For example, over the next 3 months you expect to earn at least £1,853.28 - the National Living Wage for people over 23.”

So I’m guessing January, February and March you may just qualify. But June, July, August you won’t because those months you won’t earn £1853.

If the OP is support staff, in my school they calculate your annual salary and pay you in twelve equal chunks, even though you're not working consistent hours in that time. So eligibility or not is quite clear.

From what the op says though her work doesn't do it like that, they pay for actual hours worked in the month.

@Callmecordelia
Sorry, I’m confused (and probably a bit dense). Did they not take your salary into account over the school holidays?

@Troublesometooth
I will be, yes. I only recently purchased it though….would i need to prove i spend a certain amount of time “managing” it though?

I'm pretty sure teachers have "annualised hours" for this reason as they work almost none in August but still receive their usual salary. I may be wrong.

@Callmecordelia
Sorry, I’ve confused you!
I am support staff and do currently get paid equally over the 12 months, £516p/m after tax, etc.
I wasn’t sure how that would be depicted on the application but it’s done on only salary and not hours worked then it’s okay?

@ToykotoLosAngeles
I spend like zero hours “managing” it though. Newly renovated with a lovely tenant. So would that matter?

S*teppingoverthemark
*
Does your school have a nursery attached to it ? I work in our school which has a nursery attached and we offer our staff a reduced rate if they don't qualify for the 30 free hours.

Anyway would suggest you find a school with nursery attached as their fees are often cheaper - we charge £12 a session so max of £60 a week after the 15 hrs taken off.

Just an idea for you

I don’t want to wrongly advise but there is lots more information here where you may find the answers…
www.childcarechoices.gov.uk/guides/parents-eligibility-and-application/

I think you do need to increase your salary by a small amount.

On another note I have onto just learned from the link above that you should only use the tax free childcare for hours in which you are working!

I teach but my son uses holiday club a few days in the holidays as he enjoys it. I don’t work in school on those days but do usually do planning at home, I wonder whether this is allowed!

Thank you all so much for your help!

So basically, I need to take my current state of pay forward. This is £516p/m so I need to work to boost it by £100p/m.

I need to look into rental income given I don’t do anything to “earn” it.

Thank you all again!

It's really nothing to do with hours worked at all. It is the equivalent of 16 hours at minimum wage. I wish they'd knock that off the website to be honest and just say £18xx per 3 months as I think it confuses the matter!

Earnings from property don't count, unless you are running a business. You can be self employed though and if you haven't been self employed before you get a one year grace period to earn enough. So, if you are crafty you could set up an Etsy shop or similar and try a side business.