Help for Mr Confused

[oly]

First up I'd better say I'm a Dad and I don't know if I'm allowed to read let alone write here - if an ominous silence follows I'll get the message.
I would like some advice about the cost of running a family and household expenses. I am a professional earning a large salary and putting in long hours. My wife also works very hard running the house and family (4 children 11-18). She tells me she can not survive on £1200 per month - that is for food and non-essentials as all bills including car expenses and petrol are covered. In addition she has run up £8000 debt on credit cards over 2 years that I have just found out about. There have been some words exchanged and I am accussed of being "mean" and "tight". I am at a loss to see how so much has been spent, she does not go away on trips with girlfriends or buy an excess of expensive designer clothes. However she is not good (in my view) at keeping track of finances or being generally financially realistic. Apparently "all her friends" spend well over £200 per week on food, the remaining £400 going on childrens pocket allowance/pocket money, school essentials and clothing. I often buy bits of shopping and usually provide extra for birthdays, parties, christmas, school trips etc. We have a cleaner once a week (cost covered) and she has time to visit friends for coffee and also helps at the children's school.
Can anyone see where and how the money could have gone. AIBU in asking her to economise.

I'm also a newcomer to this site and expecting our 2nd baby.

I too am a profesional, my husband is a stay at home dad and we own a modest 3 bed semi in cheshire. I fail to see how you are being unreasonable, i mean, our household bills (before food, petrol, & non essentials) come to less than £1200!

in that case Oly I could quite easily feed my 3 children plus dogs and run my very big car!!! on 1200 a month I spend about 120 a week in Tesco /sainsburys and I have nappies etc to buy as well

but a good cut and colour is approx £100, if you go somewhere really nice tans nails etc all cost too, so maybe if she looks very well groomed this could be costing the money to

I am not saying this is right BTW these things are extras in our house hat we have when we can afford whih would mean paying of that credit card bill first

I think thats the most important thing to find out what thats ben spent on

best of luck money is nearly always the cause of rows

I've lived on a fragment of this and sometimes on more than you have. If you are enjoying having a comfortable and shiny (broccoli spears put it well) life, then yes, mad as it seems 1200 for your household inceidentals and food could be construed as close to the wind.

For 4 older kids: 'the remaining £400 going on childrens pocket allowance/pocket money, school essentials and clothing' is quite a tight budget. Entertainment sure costs.

I spend ~£120 a week on food for 2 adults and a 2 year old while we are in one of our shinier phases, so also the 200 quid a week is quite tight, if you like nice food or get that convenience stuff.

Yes you are being unreasonable if you are a millionaire, have lavish designer suits and a fancy car and one tenth/twentieth of your household income is allocated to your partner who runs the house.

It is all about how much you have and how much as a percetage goes on your household, if for example you were Peter Stringfellow and you spent thousands on designer suits but only gave your wife £1200 to look after the family of 5 then that would be a problem.

And I'm speaking as someone who is poor and wouls have to because of circumstance spend much less than this - however I still have access to all of the monies in the household because I am an adult and this is a partnership

You may earn more money but it is about contribution to the family and it sounds like it should be a partnership.

And you both should be deciding the financial priorities for your family in my opinion, together.

Oly I just think people and lifestyles are SO different that you'll get no real help here from finding out what others spend.

It's all about the approach - I'm so not surprised you say that you now have seperate accounts....it HAS to be a joint thing and a joint responsibility I think.

The real issue is your completely different financial approach to life and I think you need tips on communicating more than on various households' budgets!

Start talking again, try to get past the emotional response and plough on....

YANBU - but as others have said - £1200 could be seen as a reasonable amount if you have that kind of lifestyle. I often spend about £150 per week on food (and only have 1 child and 1 "part time" step child).. Pocket money etc for teenagers can certainly mount up. Do any of your older children have any saturday jobs or other income or are all of their spends funded from this £1,200 ? If its the latter, then I can see how £400 per month could easily get eaten up...

Maybe approach it on the basis that you might look to increase it if she can provide a break down to prove what she is spending.. or maybe give the kids their own little budget/pocket money directly so they can start to appreciate how to budget more effectively themselves.. If they know their mum is constantly there to "tap up" for £20 here and there, its much harder for her, you and them to keep track of who is spending what..

As others have said, it really depends on what percentage this is of your total income.

Does your wife have a set amount of money that is for her alone, ie not just lumped in under the "food and non-essentials" category? If so then is it the same as the amount that you have allocated for yourself?

I can see that a lot of posters have said that your wife should get a part-time job if more money is needed. What about the older children? Do they have part-time jobs to help pay for their entertainment costs etc?

I don't expect you to answer those questions (none of my business) but IMO these are the kinds of things you should be looking at when talking this over with your wife.

It so depends on your lifestyle. It is of course possible to economise hugely, and many people have to survive on so much less, but you have to consider whether it is reasonable for your family to say eat value brands if you are eating out at expensive restaurants (hypothetically of course).

You mention private school bills. IME there are plenty of extras required at various points in term, and if the children do any out of school activities these too can add up. Again there may be ways of economising, but if you've gone down the private school route then you have probably made certain lifestyle choices. Pocket money, mobiles, extra pieces of kit needed during term all add up.

FWIW I don't think that you will ever manage to have any discussion that will satisfy you if you only have her part of the budget up for discussion. You really need to discuss the whole picture. If you can't afford the lifestyle that you're curently enjoying then of course your wife will be able to manage to cut back. But she will probably want to have input into all expenditure in the same way that you do.

I know a number of households who would spend a similar or greater amount of food and incidentals which will include all laundry and cleaning products, especially with that number of young adults.

A calm joint review of outgoings for the next month, over a nice glass of wine, in a 'no blame' environment, and you can both get a better idea of what's going where, and help highlight problem areas/shortfalls/extravagances.

Take a look at this link - scroll down to find food shopping

www.statistics.gov.uk/pdfdir/efs0107.pdf

At £45 per week it is small, then make this a percentage of £25k per year and you have a percentage to work on.

As £25k per year is roughly the adv wage in uk and then if £45 per week is the adv spend on food.

I work it out to be 10%-12% you will have to allow for an above adv family size as you have 4 children not 2. So another third will equate to around 16% of your gross income.

Unfortunatley I think you are wise to have seperate accounts - in fact it's a shame you can't get rid of her credit cards. I am not good with money, and at my request, we have seperate accounts and NO credit cards for either of us. Dh goes throught the acounts every month and looks at where every transaction has gone as a line item (for both of us). We are neither of us brillian with money although I really have a bad trak record and this has enabled us to quickly get back on track if either of us is overspending - and to see at once where the excess has gone.

I advise you to do similarly - but make it clear that you will track BOTH your accounts openly. In our case, although I am a postgrad on a small grant and dh has a good salary, all disposable income (after all bills including food) is spit 50-50 - there is no question of me having 'an allowance' or aguing for more money. I can see exactly what our total incomings and outgoings are dh, as the breadwinner, doesn't have an extra stash I can appeal for. Personally I think it's a mistake for the wage-earner to withold extra money and not split it 50-50 transparently.

My mother had a terrible debt/card problem so I am very conscious of having to be accountable and I do think you are wise to take control. As long as you are transparent and fair in your management there should be no scope to argue over money (works for us!).

Other expenses which I find rack up the monthly outgoings are birthday presents for parties, school trips, school bus fares, school lunches, pocket money, mobile phone top-ups, music lessons, drama lessons, swimming. Also clothes for teenagers, including school uniform and equipment (especially if at private school).

I agree with other posters that you should sit down together and draw up a budget - estimating how much you spend on these things for the children, and how much you spend on your own entertainment, socialising and clothing. If you do this together it will be much more constructive than if you make your DW account for her expenditure, without also accounting for yours.

I work, and don't have much time to shop or socialise, yet I always seem to go through more money than I imagine I am. It seems that whatever your income, it's never quite enough!

Oly, might i suggest you put an expense sheet together that you both agree to fill out religiously for a month.

Put down every bill and every spend, that way you can see where the 1200 is going, and she can see what your wages are going on.

Then, if there is any 'extra' income unaccounted for from either of you, you can renegotiate the household allowance together so it works better for both of you.

I have four teenagers, the eldest (18) works, the second one (16) is studying but also works part time, the third one (15)has a paper round the youngest(13) is to young and doesnt do anything yet. If none of your children earn any money I can see that money not spent on food could get used up quite quickly, mobile phone top ups £10 a time, Cinema with popcorn and drink £10 a time, swimming, music lessons etc etc the list goes on.

I would suggest something like a spending diary that you all do, put down every single penny that you spend, give the kids, pay bills with. So you can both see where the money is going. I think you can quite easily feed a family of 4 teenagers on £200, but I also feel that with 4 children in private schools the rest of the money could quite easily get used up. Not sure how you could best approach this without your wife getting emotional.

I do think that the running up of a very large credit card bill without your knowledge is worrying.

i only have me and 2 small children at home but i manage on £60 a month! Although when h was around that was more like £100.

but it can be done on less money.

what i would say is dicuss if you can afford her spending this money, if you can then ask her to make a spending diary and then re-evaluate how much she needs each month.

if you cannot afford it then you need her to keep a spending diary and then go through it and work out where you can make cut backs to be able to live.

as for the debt i sympathise, i found out 4 months ago that h had run up 18k of debt without me knowing. we are no longer together as i cannot trust him with money and need to keep the roof over my childrens heads!