Help for Mr Confused

[oly]

First up I'd better say I'm a Dad and I don't know if I'm allowed to read let alone write here - if an ominous silence follows I'll get the message.
I would like some advice about the cost of running a family and household expenses. I am a professional earning a large salary and putting in long hours. My wife also works very hard running the house and family (4 children 11-18). She tells me she can not survive on £1200 per month - that is for food and non-essentials as all bills including car expenses and petrol are covered. In addition she has run up £8000 debt on credit cards over 2 years that I have just found out about. There have been some words exchanged and I am accussed of being "mean" and "tight". I am at a loss to see how so much has been spent, she does not go away on trips with girlfriends or buy an excess of expensive designer clothes. However she is not good (in my view) at keeping track of finances or being generally financially realistic. Apparently "all her friends" spend well over £200 per week on food, the remaining £400 going on childrens pocket allowance/pocket money, school essentials and clothing. I often buy bits of shopping and usually provide extra for birthdays, parties, christmas, school trips etc. We have a cleaner once a week (cost covered) and she has time to visit friends for coffee and also helps at the children's school.
Can anyone see where and how the money could have gone. AIBU in asking her to economise.

I can't possibly imagine spending that much money, there is only myself, DP and 2 children aged 3 and 7, but we spend around £150 on shopping a fortnight, and we do buy crapola with that too, I certainly don't scrimp. I also spend over £30 a week on bus fares as I don't drive and still couldn't possibly match up to £1200 per month.

I sometimes moan at DP when he talks 'money' tbh, It bores me, I deal with all the other stuff, I run the house, look after the children and all he has to do is work out what money goes where (and earn it!). So if he mentions it I don't want to talk about it, but he has done a spreadsheet before now to show exactly what is going where so if he asked me to economise and showed me why then I'd listen.

TBH, I know it's your family and you two decide how it works, but I don't understand why she is at home when the children are at school and doesn't even do the cleaning. Why is she at home?? If she has a problem with you telling her to chill out on the spending (£8000 on credit ffs, what did she buy????) then she should go to work.

Just do the money together - sit down and go through things once a week together and then you both know what's being spent on what and how that is keeping within the budget. I think doing it together is far better than one person holding the purse strings as then you are jointly discussing things rather than one person feeling that the other is controlling what money they can and should spend.

I also think you need to avoid a scenario where you are presenting an aura of 'I'm checking up because this is my money you're spending". When you're in a family situation and one partner is staying at home to care for the kids and be the homemaker, the money in my opinion is joint even though it's earned by you. That's why I think you need joint responsibility for it on a day to day basis. Then if you're both checking then the credit card situation can't arise, hopefully. I take it you have internet banking? It's so easy to keep on top of that way.

Ask her to write down everything she spends for a months and what she spends it on. It's not as hard as it sounds - you just make sure you have receipts for everything and at the end of the day make a list on a diary page or notebook. You will be able to see exactly where the money goes and then decide yourself if you think it's reasonable or not.

I've done this before for my husband and once he could see where the money was going he felt a lot better - it's amazing how much teenagers cost to run.

blimey we survive on 1200 a month for everything!!

And I think people are being pretty dismissive of her being at home; actually with four kids, if you want to be a 'homemaker' and be involved in their schools, and cook, and actually CARE for the home, then I don't think it's outrageous for her to be at home IF it can be afforded. The cleaner only comes once a week I think it says in the OP - with six people in the house, I would think that would be 'firefighting' in a way and that there would be plenty to do in the house to keep on top of it in any real sense. Blimey, I could keep busy enough at home and I have one child at school!

If she wants a job, great - she should, but I can see how she might have more than enough to do at home. We shouldn't be so dismissive of that, where is the sisterhood?

Honoria, I agree if it can be afforded but surely with the extra expenses that are obviously not necessary if she is complaining about tightening her belt a few hours a week on a part-time job would not be unreasonable?

I mean seriously what on earth do you spend £8000 on when you're already spending £1200 a month?

She sounds like a spoilt child to me especially with the "all my friends" line. If she was a child everyone would be saying, tell her to work for it.

I have 4 children, and spend around £140 a week on food, but I don't have teenagers and that is being careful with things (no booze for example) - I think it would be easy to spend more.

I suggest you sit down and go through a spread sheet - there is one on moneysavingexpert - and complete that.

I would also say (if I was your wife) - if you (both) can afford to be extravagent, what is the problem? If she is spending money you don't have, then that is another issue. However, me and my dh have this conversation quite frequently - he doesn't realise how much money children and a house soak up.

I have been working now for a year, but when I was a sahm it was very easy to spend money internet shopping, or just popping to the shops, and if I didn't have young children (mine are all under 9) then I would spend much more!

I agree with you Vic but I just think it's so subjective, what people spend. I mean, to me the money they spend is huge (we food shop on about 40 quid a week for 3) but it's all about lifestyle and choices so it's so hard for us to judge.

But yes I agree if it is becoming a problem then she ought to be able to agree to tighten her belt. But is that really the case, I don't think the OP makes that clear. She just might feel 'got at' by her DH, that's why I think money needs to be a joint responsibility.

my god - we survived as a family of 4 for 5 years on 1200k!

(I don't mean that in a snidey way )

I mean, we love nice food in this house and our weekly shop is around £100, (not including wine )
So I'm certain, given obviously, nappies etc are not an issue that I could just about manage on £1200 for six! It does seem a little juvenile of her to bleat ''but all my friends get more''.

You really need to speak to her IMO.
With children that age and a cleaner, there's no need for her to be at home, squandering money. She could get a part-time job if she wants more money. (to clear her credit card debts?) Maybe she's a bit depressed after so many years child rearing and spending is her way of beating the boredom?

i nderstand your wife may work hard at home, i have 2 children, aged 3 and 20mths and i take care of them, and the house and to be honest i barely have time to spend money on things other than essentials... we are on a tighter budget than your wife is used to, but we spend about £250-300 a month on food, all bought fresh and locally, and hubby will play football, then clothes and shoes for the 2 kids, and the odd bits for us, and i'd have to say i spend about £500 a month excluding mortgage bills and fuel expences....if she cant cope on more than double that then she needs to start making note of where her money goes to....we had a few tight months last year through paying for a major unexpected bill, and we found that writing down exactly where we'd spent money and how much made us more aware of where our money was going, we'd allow ourselves a meal out or take-away each month which writing it down made us aware that we'd already had it....its not very hard to be careful with money as long as you know how....

i do think that the £8000 on credit in 2 yrs is very uncalled for, if she's not working and has a healthy monthly allowance like you say she shouldn't really need to be spending an extra £300 a month on credit!!

I don't think you're being unreasonable at all. We have less than that to pay bills, mortage and THEN food and misc.

Would love to have that as expendable income.

However, I suspect she has got used to spending that amount on treats (like coffee/lunches) etc, I quess she has just been living to the means that you provide.

Maybe she needs gently re-educating about the value of money?

I think you need to sit down and have a very long chat, and Yes, I would ask for receipts actually.

I think it would be pretty easy to spend that sort of money. I'd probably spend that and more if we weren't on such a tight budget. A couple of trips to Waitrose. Meat every day. Convenience meals. Out of season fruit. Meeting friends for lunch. Buying a nice little top here, clothes for the kids, a cute pair of shoes. Manicure. Hair done. Beautician. Birthday presents for friends. Something nice for the house. Gym membership.

Does she wear nice clothes? Nice hair? Are your kids always shiny and new looking? Is your house full of lovely things? Do you eat well every day?

You have told us that your wife cannot survive on £1200 per month - for food and non essentials which in my world would last me around 6 months - but that is in my world where things are different.

Rather than the amount of money what is the percentage to your earnings, this is more relevant as the life style that you live is more relevant to the finances.

I like starbucks but at roughly £5 per visit it is a non essentail I don't often have - whereas others can afford this non essentail 5 x per week = £25 per week = £100 per month and so on then there are lots of other non essentails that have become the norm possibly for your lifestyle as a family and they do add up. You need to decide between you what and how you want to live your lives.

Good Grief!! - and I was expecting a big silence!
Some of you picked up on the fact that we have seperate accounts and my wife has a budget. We did start married life with a joint account but it soon became apparent that we had completely different views on managing money and when our finances became stretched (private schools, large mortgage and business loans) I had to seperate them. I thought if she had her own account she could more easily watch her spending. Someone mentioned control and that is something I'm accused of although I would say the reverse is being out of control. It has always been difficult for us to talk about money because we approach it so differently, I do not finger wag but attempts at rational conversation are met with heated emotional response. I have seen some shopping bills but no budget or plan and
until now I had no idea what a normal expenditure for a family of 6 was. I do not want to be unreasonable and will approach with caution but I do want to be able to save some money for future expenses such as University fees and Holidays.
Many thanks to all

reallyif you have a cleaner and she doesn't do anything apart from well make dinner and taxi the kids around then she is just enjoying a lifestyle she thinks you can afford

there is no way it is a full time job having teenagers if you ahve nothing else to do tho you could make it seem like one

8 grand over 2 years on credit cards - that has been kept a secret from her husband?? That is the worrying part IMO. Everyone's idea of what is "enough" is different, but I would be very unhappy if my husband spent that sort of money and deliberately concealed it from me. To me it makes no difference who earns what or who does what - marriage and child rearing should be a partnership based on trust. I can understand how the op feels shocked and bewildered.

perhaps you need to approach with a "I would like to start saving for x y z, would you agree to this?" then take if from there

I suspect that what is a reasonable budget in your wife's (and my) world, is considered by alot of people on here to be a huge amount.

If it was me, I would be spending money because I didn't have anything else to do. I'm not suggesting that your wife needs to work, but just that if it was me at home all day on my own, I would spend rather alot of time shopping and drinking coffee.

www.moneysavingexpert.com/ well worth a look at .

Totally agree with pollyanna, when I am on my holidays (I teach) I spend huge amounts of money (on coffees, lunches, clothes for ds, me etc etc) because I've nothing else tod - it really doesn't take that long to vacuum, prepare dinner, put a wash on. get the children ready etc. All that usually takes an hour - and then what do you do for the rest of the day? You go and meet friends and spend loads of money!

Maybe a hobby if she doesn't fancy a job?

Also, maybe it's worth mentioning toher what would happen if you suddenly lost your job? (illness, redundancy etc).

This happened to my sister who was in a very similiar situation as you and you're family.

my dh works away and I have about that amount to spend on everything but household bills.
by the time I have paid the insurances for different things the children savings any birthday xmas presents, shoes, uniform, incidentals and food there is not much left.

I dont buy designer clothes or have food from M & S or a cleaner but the things that normally DH would buy if he were here mount up eg just bought a new fridge,

I think if your not there often because you work alot there is more for her to pay for than when Dh is home every night

8K on credit cards though is wrong if sh is not telling you she is spending on them ours are for emergencies which I do use but they come back out of the budget we have set ourselves

1200 is considerably more than half our monthly income (me, dh, 2.7yo and 3mo). Tbh I can appreciate teenagers can be expensive, but still not being able to survive on that shows she (sorry) doesn't know what 'survive' means.

I myself enjoy buying nice stuff for the children - all of it stuff they need or at least find ueeful (warm winter coat, winter boots, cereal bowl, extra baby sling, books books books) but nice stuff, often considerably more expensive than they'd need. We also allow ourselves the luxury of eating organic. But we are aware that all of it is luxury. The spending is now being cut right down on, because we want a short (gasp) holiday this year.

(Those of you wondering how I managed to afford that spending - we rent a smallish but lovely flat for a very reasonable price (in Germany), don't have a car, don't have TV, only have a pay-as-you-go phone, don't go out)

Hi peanutbear and others
All insurance and large household expenses including fridges and expensive presents I would pay for.
I am home every night as my work is quite close but start work at 8am and finish on average about 7pm.
My main reason for posting is to get some sort of feel for the household costs. I want to make life as easy as possible for my wife but at present it all seems to be going pear shaped.