To stop Y1 friendship

[mysummer2001]

My dc has recently developed a close friendship with the most misbehavedkid in the class (Y1) and we are not sure how to handle this situation. The child is a 'leader of the bad kids'; they are often rude and mean to kids and always looking for trouble and of the opinion that being 'good is boring'. They are however very fun and I think that is what my dc is drawn to.
We have tried to encourageour dc to play with other nice kidsbut it is not working. From what we understand our dc does not feel like she can stop the games and is following her friend as to not upset them. She agrees that she should try to play with someone else but once in school, she can't say no to her friend which leads to both of them getting into trouble.We have been discussing the situation and talking about this at home for an entire week with no improvements.
I will be talking to the school (they have not reached out yet) but before I do that I wonder if I should have some specific requests or questions? I know the school can't physically separate the kids but surely they should be able to do something!

Lunar1 what a fantastic post…I don’t know why but it has really brightened my day. So glad you can see the good in your sons friend and I’m sure both children have benefited from their friendship

@lunar1 how refreshing!
OP you can't choose your children's friends and like most things in life the harder you push the more stubborn things become. Let it play out, expand social circles as PP have said but maybe there is value to be found in all relationships not just the ideal scenario ones!

I don't know why this boy has a soft spot for my DS, they are so far on opposite ends of the spectrum at school. He is impulsive, doesn't know when to tone it down and is probably not the easiest for the teachers to manage. But he's not malicious or unkind.

We have had similar. We have worked on building our dd confidence and assertiveness so she can say no to things. I reinforce this when the other child is controlling outside of school.

Thing is children at this age are not intrinsically bad. They behave in ways to get attention. I also think that having a mass ‘don’t play with x’ will result in even worse behaviour and embeds that in the ‘bad’ child.

Support your child to do the right thing, have play dates with others outside of school and even the ‘bad’ child. We haven’t done the latter as dd sees ‘bad’ child regularly and I can see how they interact. That child can see the boundaries and now respects them.

If a child is hanging out with the "leader of the bad kids" and making poor choices, they have to learn there are consequences. Let the teacher deal with it and tell them you back up whatever punishment or natural consequences there are. Then your child will stop making poor choices and go with different friends. Year 1 TA here and that is what I would do with my own 6 year old DD. Kids like fun but barring emotional or mental problems, most of them respond to firm boundaries. Also keep in mind that relationships fluctuate hugely, and they might have several groups of firm friends they play with at various times.

How do you know there is continuous poor behaviour if the school hasn't spoken to you about it? What sort of things is your DD choosing to do that she shouldn't be doing/says she wouldn't do if not for trying to keep her friend happy?

They are both young but are capable of making choices about joining in with things they know they shouldn't be doing. Although you have talked about it with your DD, she may need to rehearse some stock phrases or role play the scenarios with teddies/Lego people or something so she has a clearer idea of how that might work. How about asking her to show you with teddies what happens at playtime when she and X get into trouble. Let her act it out and try to ask questions that will give her an opportunity to explore options e.g. I wonder how Z feels when X and Y do that? What is Y thinking when X says they won't be friends if she doesn't join in? What do you think X would say if Y told her it makes her feel unhappy when they get told off? I wonder how things would go if Y told X that she likes being friends but isn't going to join in with ?
You may be able to gently join in with her after a bit - let her be the friend and you have the teddy who is being DD. Try out some different options, including going along with friend's suggestions as well as doing some thinking aloud, "argh, I know Mr Playground Supervisor will tell us off if we kick the ball after the bell goes but friend just told me to score a goal... I don't know what to do!". Make it about playing rather than a lecture, help each other come up with ideas and let DD try some of them on for size.

It is definitely worth encouraging her to play with a wide range of children but I would advise against suggesting she 'ask' to join in with others because that opens a whole other can of worms. If she's choosing to leave friend to make her silly behaviour, it's perfectly fine to go to another group of children and say, "I'd like to join in please... what are you playing/which team shall I join?". Being friendly, polite and willing to join in games is usually a successful approach with Y1 children.

I hate this sentiment. Labelling children 'bad' at 5/6 years old. So this poor child you don't want YOUR child to play with her, what if every parent said the same. As a grown adult are you actively encouraging a child to have no friends because of how YOU perceive them. Generally children who are 'bad' have a chaotic home life or extra needs. They are the ones who need a friendship the most especially with level headed children. Instead of encouraging your daughter not to play with them I'd be encouraging her to play with her often but not all the time so she can extend her own friendship circle as I would encourage any child also your child's influence might be just what this other child needs and can learn from.

If school haven't mentioned your child's behaviour I wouldn't be concerned at all. Hopefully you've done a good enough job to hope that your child behaves appropriately with whatever influence gets thrown there way and if not... this is life, it's a learning curve. Staying on the right path even if pulled astray.

Your child needs to be punished for what they DO not learn to shift the blame on to other people's decisions (unless she plans to be PM of course).

You are ridiculously out of line to describe a 5/6 year old child as "bad" and assume the behaviour is entirely down to her being on some path to rebellion. She might be quite immature, she might be bored in school, she might not be used to rules at home (maybe her parents excuse her behaviour as someone else's fault too).
Focus on your child. Friendships change, children change. If you support her to make new friends (which she won't unless she starts to take responsibility for herself without your support) then she will gain more chances to learn to navigate friendships and recognise the choices she makes for what they are.

@mysummer2001

My dc has recently developed a close friendship with the most misbehavedkid in the class (Y1) and we are not sure how to handle this situation. The child is a 'leader of the bad kids'; they are often rude and mean to kids and always looking for trouble and of the opinion that being 'good is boring'. They are however very fun and I think that is what my dc is drawn to. We have tried to encourageour dc to play with other nice kidsbut it is not working. From what we understand our dc does not feel like she can stop the games and is following her friend as to not upset them. She agrees that she should try to play with someone else but once in school, she can't say no to her friend which leads to both of them getting into trouble.We have been discussing the situation and talking about this at home for an entire week with no improvements. I will be talking to the school (they have not reached out yet) but before I do that I wonder if I should have some specific requests or questions? I know the school can't physically separate the kids but surely they should be able to do something!

Also you sound like you belong in the playground yourself to be quite honest. The entitlement and lack of any empathy is shocking.

Ringing the teacher is laughable. Are you actually ringing up to tell a teacher you don't want your child playing with the 'bad' kid. Grow up. No school don't encourage ostracising kids from others because of what parents say. Unless there's bullying or other horrendous behaviour going on then they are watched more not separated. Not quite sure what resources you think they have. The fact school haven't reached out to you about any of this 'behaviour' says it all. You are just drinking up what your daughter has told you and taking it as gospel. Maybe your little darling should be home schooled if you don't want any influence.

I don't know about 'bad' kids but you sound like a 'bad' parent with your own behaviour. Encouraging a child to have no friends because of your own perceptions.

I wonder if this child's parents are having similar conversations with their child and seeing your child as the bad influence.
You are getting your child's version of events and I doubt they are going to tell you objectively the role they play in all of this- of course they are going to minimise their own not so great behavior and are happy for you to think they are being swept along under the rule of this other child.
I'd contact the school but be prepared to hear a completely different version of what you expect.

You can't really stop a friendship at school neither can the teachers. You can choose not to facilitate that friendship outside school by not having this friend over etc

But you need to have a bit of perspective in that these are 5/6 yr old children in yr1 this child is probably testing the waters and maybe she's bossy etc. Kids change, they evolve and sometimes the seemingly most challenging kids when young actually grow to be lovely. So I would hold back, I would not say anything negative about this friend in front of your own child, but it may be too late for that. Focus on reiterating the importance of kindness with others to your own child. Find some books about kindness etc there are plenty out there!

From my own experience my DD was very good friends with a girl from reception to yr 3. This girl was very on and off with my DD. I can't say it was the healthiest of friendships. Anyway from yr 4 my DD made her own decision to keep a distance from this girl and they no longer hang out together at all at school. My DD is much happier. Basically as she got older she started to see that this was not a good friendship worth having, they learn, they change and hopefully they start making better choices.

It’s year 1, with 18 months or so of less than ideal socialisation.
I would just encourage other friendships as has been suggested and give strategies to my child to say no to friend if asked to do something naughty e.g practice saying no I don’t want to do that. I’m going to play with someone else.
But other than that leave it for time being

@lunar1

DS1 made friends with a similar child in Y1, they are still friends now in Y8. DS1's behaviour has never dipped and he does loads of extra curricular activities so they don't spend loads of time together.

DS1 is a dancer and has several hobbies that some boys have been unkind over. 'The naughty kid' has been his defender at every turn at school. Nobody dares to bully him and I'm pretty sure I have this boy to thank. There was an incident brought to light of racism towards DS1, and it was this friend who spoke out, the 'good kids' stayed quiet.

I think my son would have a much trickier senior school experience without his friend. The boy spends some of every week in detentions, on the surface he isn't who you would pick to be your child's friend, but I'm so glad I never tried to engineer the situation when they were young.

I would keep an eye on things for a while and see how they progress. I'm glad I let things play out on their own.

I think this is a very interesting post. Regardless of the general behaviour of this child, the question you should be asking yourself is whether this is a positive friendship for your child.

Some children aren't natural rule followers and struggle with school rules and routines but don't have a malicious bone in their bodies. I would much rather my child was friends with one of those children, even if it led them into trouble occasionally, rather than with one of the apparently 'good' children who enjoy playing off and manipulating their friends.

Why not invite this child for a playdate to observe the dynamic between them? That might give you a better idea as to whether to speak to the school or just encourage your DD to take more responsibility for her own behaviour.

Stop trying to define a young kid as a "bad kid".

Fine to broaden friendships by inviting other dc round.

Your dc is responsible for their own behaviour send this is where you should focus rather than blaming a dc they are friends with.

This will not be the last time your dc chooses a friend you don't like, but she should be able to spend time with kids she likes.

If your dc (rather than you) doesn't enjoy the relation and needs help navigating this then speak to the teacher.

Looking at my older two, now grown, I have some regrets about always teaching quiet manners, standing aside, sensible choices etc. Well behaved children that they were they aren’t the most assertive adults, or the most confident.
My youngest is a firebrand, finds the ‘naughty kids’, older ones too. BUT already she’s got positive assertive skills. She doesn’t copy bad behaviour, she’s not mean but she’s lovely and happy and handles situations easily.
I’ve started to come round to the idea that strong women may be a little harder to handle as kids, but not being compliant and quiet at all times has some benefits. There’s a balance.
Unless her work suffers or it makes her sad let her be.

As a foster carer I have looked after numerous children that the OP would classify as The child is a 'leader of the bad kids'; they are often rude and mean to kids and always looking for trouble. I do feel so sad that the OP has made that judgement with such young children, and that her child should be discouraged from playing with this "bad kid". It breaks my heart a little as I realise maybe other parents think this way about children like mine that have been through absolute hell in their young lives and never lucky enough to witness or mirror any kind of good behaviour. Are these "bad kids" only allowed to play with other "bad kids" then? At five years old are they deemed to be classified as not good enough to play with the "good kids". They won't stand much of a chance really..."bad kids play by yourselves over here please" and "you good kids don't go anywhere near them". I could cry knowing that stand no chance at all, stamped with the bad kid label at just five. Never learn to play nicely, never receive an invitation for a party or a play date, never have the opportunity to lose the "bad kid" label.

My son was friends with that kind of boy in y1. The boy wasn't mean to other kids but was impulsive, destructive and ignored instructions kind of behaviour iyswim

My son knew not to copy his behaviour and seemed to understand intuitively that this kid just couldn't cope with school all day. I think that being friends with him helped with my son's confidence as this boy had so much confidence he'd speak out about anything wrong that he saw where as good kids are generally more reluctant to speak out or grass up anything who's done wrong.

You need to find out more about this child's behaviour and give your child the confidence to make her own decisions about right and wrong. If this child is like the boy I've described, they will respect that your dd is different to them and not interested in being naughty,

If your dd wants to make changes to her behaviour then she needs support to do so but at very possible that she likes being naughty and is seeking out this child in the playground.

There have been times when I've had to tell my child not to seek out certain people in the playground and the other mum has said the same to their child. Sometimes a break does the kids good and they become better friends.