***trigger warning child abuse***To think it is disgusting and unacceptable that people seem to almost get away with killing children in this country!

[isitmean]

I absolutely do not think I am being unreasonable but the justice system seem to think so! And I guess the majority of people or wouldn't we be campaigning about it as we do with many little "woke" issues these days!

I have just read that both the killers of Alfie Lamb are now out of prison! Three years, which was how old he was.

I just can't understand it, is it like this in all countries or is the U.K. very lax?

The UK is one of the more progressive countries in terms of prosecuting people who abuse children. This progressiveness has a knock-on effect on sentencing though, it's more about rehabilitating the offender rather than punishing them.

Societies as a whole seem unable to differentiate being keen to prosecute offenders and issuing harsh punishments. Some countries will jail offenders for life, or execute them, but these countries are also the worst for actually prosecuting offenders in the first place. More modern/liberal countries are happier to prosecute, but the sentencing is also more liberal.

I guess the best thing would be to combine modern attitudes to child abuse being a serious crime with more conservative attitudes to punishment, public hanging for example. That would seem to be the best combination in preventing child abuse and punishing those who commit it.

@MorningStarling that's a really interesting point. I didn't think about that and it is spot on when you think about/look at several countries spread across the world. I know it's not a popular opinion but I think murdering a child is the worst thing anyone can do and that it deserves a death sentence, or the very least life in prison.

I do not know what you mean by many little woke issues. There is no need for that. Be annoyed about what has happened here, but do not diminish other people's concerns for other things.

I don’t believe in the death penalty but I do think child killers should be castrated, tubes tied so they can never reproduce!

public hanging for example. That would seem to be the best combination in preventing child abuse and punishing those who commit it

Absolute tripe.

Every study has concluded that severity of sentence has absolutely no bearing whatsoever of proclivity to offend. This 'lock them up' trope is nothing but reactionary nonsense.

That's before you even get to the point that you completely and comprehensively undermine your own moral authority as a State to pass judgement and punish people the instant you resort to Capital punishment.

It's Dark Ages thinking and should be left there.

I wouldn't want to live in a country that had the death sentence or automatic life sentences for specific crimes without consideration of other factors (e.g., diminished responsibility).

I'd much rather there were sufficient early intervention services to address the root causes of abuse, neglect, and violence so that as many of these situations as possible are not given the opportunity to occur.

He's the son of an ex Tory MP, he was never going to serve his sentence. However, we need to review prisoners only serving a percentage of their sentence. It's all about justice seeing to be done, but not actually being done.

Look at the adults involved - their backgrounds, their level of intelligence, their prospects, their characters. I doubt they have any level of comprehension in their actions = what might happen, and the capacity to follow any sort of thought process about not dining something because of the consequences. Harsh deterrent style punishments will have no impact on these sorts of crimes, because for a deterrent to work the would-be perpetrators have to have the capacity to modify their behaviour to avoid it. People like this simply don’t. They’re the underclass in every sense of the world.

public hanging for example.

You'd be comfortable going to watch that would you? Says a lot more about you than the abusers to be honest. Hangings, public or otherwise, are not justice, they're retribution and the baying mob mentality it encourages has no place in law.

That would seem to be the best combination in preventing child abuse and punishing those who commit it

No, it wouldn't. Countries with the death penalty do not have lower murder rates. What would happen is that child abusers would instead become child killers because if you're going to get state-murdered if you're caught committing child abuse, you may as well take the chance of committing murder and hiding the body instead because dead children tell no tales.

"I'd much rather there were sufficient early intervention services to address the root causes of abuse, neglect, and violence so that as many of these situations as possible are not given the opportunity to occur."

Does include getting adopted by a Tory MP? The Police said that he was the most arrogant, selfish and deeply unpleasant person who they had delt with.

Harsher sentencing also disproportionately affects minority groups and lower socio-economic classes - for example, a black man from a poor background is far more likely to receive a harsh sentence than a white man from a wealthy background.

Does include getting adopted by a Tory MP? The Police said that he was the most arrogant, selfish and deeply unpleasant person who they had delt with.

Why would early intervention include being adopted by a Tory MP?

@emuloc I think it's relevant. Where is the public outrage about these sentences? Where are the marches and the newspaper articles and the celebrities speaking out?

Where is the public outrage about these sentences? Where are the marches and the newspaper articles and the celebrities speaking out?

Feel free to start a campaign.

Public hanging?! Where do you want to live Saudi Arabia? Dear god.

I've never really understood why people should be offered parole after only serving half their sentence. How about a reduction of a year max, for good behaviour, on sentences above 3 years?

[quote isitmean]@emuloc I think it's relevant. Where is the public outrage about these sentences? Where are the marches and the newspaper articles and the celebrities speaking out? [/quote]
I’ll offer the view I think quite a few people subscribe to:

The world is not short of children. We can always get more of them, and plenty of people who aren’t very good at looking after them are great at breeding more. In that sense, they’re disposable. What’s the death of a few - especially aforementioned ones like Alfie who were probably never going to make very much of their lives anyway and end up just like their scummy parents, a drain in society?

The death sentence is never justified in my opinion.

[quote isitmean]@emuloc I think it's relevant. Where is the public outrage about these sentences? Where are the marches and the newspaper articles and the celebrities speaking out? [/quote]
Yanbu to ask where is the public outrage about it. Bearing in mind maybe the public are only now finding out about him being released. What I think is not okay is the sneery little woke issues line. Who are you to say what people should be finding important enough to be protesting about?

@ComtesseDeSpair did you really just type that? Did you actually read it through first? It sounds like you are actively encouraging the murder of vulnerable underprivileged children??

[quote didihearthatright123456]@ComtesseDeSpair did you really just type that? Did you actually read it through first? It sounds like you are actively encouraging the murder of vulnerable underprivileged children??[/quote]
I said that I think that’s how some people view this sort of crime, and which leads them to not think of particularly dreadful that these sorts of children die. I think that’s reflected in some sentences and in the general approach to child abuse.

Sentencing when it comes to crimes against women such as rape, domestic violence and sexual abuse are lenient, which reflects the low status of women in society.

Sentencing in many cases of child abuse equally reflects the status of children and their lack of importance in the eyes of some.

@emuloc I don't understand how anyone could see another issue being more important than preventing and punishing people who abuse and murder children, the most vulnerable members of our society.

[quote isitmean]@emuloc I think it's relevant. Where is the public outrage about these sentences? Where are the marches and the newspaper articles and the celebrities speaking out? [/quote]
Why do people have to be outraged about the sentences?

Some people might be completely comfortable with the idea of rehabilitation, they might believe that after a certain period punitive measures don't serve any purpose other than retribution.

The UK has a very particular take on criminality and punishment - compare to some other european countries - where the first question isn't - 'why did this person do this, and how can we punish them?' but 'How has society allowed this to happen, and how can we prevent it from happening again?'

@ComtesseDeSpair is it really that callous!? I mean maybe you're right, maybe it is and subconsciously that's how some people feel? But surely not a majority?