To think that the plan to nationalise GPs is a good thing?

[XantheBreeze]

GPs are apparently up in arms about potential plans to nationalise GP practices.
Many people might not realise that GPs and their practices have always been ‘private’ and not part of the NHS but contracts with it as they didn’t want to lose their independence (and high pay) at the birth of the NHS in 1948.

With all the talk of Tories wanting to privatise the NHS, and the recent rogue behaviour of some GPs deciding they prefer not to see patients unless they deem it necessary, AIBU to think this would be a good idea?

Well,the system needs a good shake up one way or another. I think you're very fortunate of you have access to a GP at the moment.

A GP friend told me a few of them would be delighted at the prospect of having better terms and conditions, decent working hours etc under the new proposals, instead of the current 10 hour days and unsafe workloads.

Interesting timing of these announcements though - almost as of the government would like to distract us from other news

"GP's deciding they prefer not to see patients" what nonsense.

I haven’t voted but I don’t think the answer is clear cut. I am in Scotland and we are not covered by this proposal, but things I would be thinking about are : how are the practices run; which clinics will they continue to offer; how will they be flexed to the needs of their demographics. Some practices will have a very aged population while others may have more addiction issues. My own practice has an in-house counsellor , as clearly that’s a need they have identified.

My concern would be that if they were lumped into a large NHS pot, funding for the extras would be hard to find.

Well I’m no sure that nationalisation is the answer but the contracts in place at the moment clearly do not work. Maybe there needs to be different rates charged for telophpne appointments and in person. At my GP surgery there is a plethora of clinicians- nurses, paramedics, pharmacist but no drs . It’s cost cutting. They also have all of the GP rooms being used for covid vaccines - all of them ; 10 rooms! So they are making double bubble - getting paid for vaccinations as well as a GP service they are not providing. Where I understand GP surgeries need to make a profit, that is not the same as profiteering. Something needs to be done.

I don't think this has anything to do with patients and more to do with the government bringing them in to the nhs so privatisation of the nhs looks even more attractive to investors.

Well, it would certainly sort out most of the communication errors between the different IT systems. GPs could stop paying for each patient referral ... and many, many more oddities.

Our local GP surgery would probably welcome it with open arms. The benefits to each GP and their ageing patient base are fairly obvious!

@ItsSnowJokes

I don't think this has anything to do with patients and more to do with the government bringing them in to the nhs so privatisation of the nhs looks even more attractive to investors.

That was my immediate thought too.

@Username916
""GP's deciding they prefer not to see patients" what nonsense.""

Not every area had the same service. My adult DD had to attend A&E twice and my GD aged four was admitted to hospital for five days after the GP wouldn't see her although her symptoms wasn't those of Covid. My DD works in the hospital that she and her DD attended and around a third of A&E patients have been refused by their GPs. One practice is under the threat of removal of their license.
I welcome the news. My GP is in a health center which has a children's centre attached. At one point they'd allow the young staff (and often temporary) to take over the desk of the GP which meant nothing was private. This was stopped after complaints.

@Username916

"GP's deciding they prefer not to see patients" what nonsense.

My youngest daughter lost conciousness yesterday at school. Our GP refused to see her despite the advice on the NHS website that you should see a GP if you have fainted without a known cause. We were given a phone call later that day, because that is an excellent substitute for the physical examination that should be carried out.

General Practice should have been nationalised in 1948 and it has been a huge mistake to allow GPs to continue as private contractors to the NHS for so long. This pandemic has just shone a more harsh light on the fact that the service is patchy and inconsistent across the country as surgeries seem to be operating to wildly different rules.

However, I don't trust the motives of a Tory government seeking to nationalise. I just see it as taking control to facilitate privatisation to large health corporations.

@thebakeoffwasntasgoodthisyear

A GP friend told me a few of them would be delighted at the prospect of having better terms and conditions, decent working hours etc under the new proposals, instead of the current 10 hour days and unsafe workloads.

Interesting timing of these announcements though - almost as of the government would like to distract us from other news

10 hours' days??? UK GPs???? You must be joking!

My youngest daughter lost conciousness yesterday at school. Our GP refused to see her despite the advice on the NHS website that you should see a GP if you have fainted without a known cause. We were given a phone call later that day, because that is an excellent substitute for the physical examination that should be carried out

This is my experience of trying to access basic GP care too recently. It's what is putting the strain on A and E, people bypass GPs and go straight to the hospital. What else are they meant to do?

I didn’t know about this so just had to look it up. Th first two articles I read say nothing about patient care. One said they have seen Javid’s letter and it says the NHS is not focusing enough on prevention.

I really don’t want a more expensive health service that’s even harder to access. The lack of appointments is definitely a thing at my surgery and mum’s. I’ve been told by a now retired GP that before she left, she was the only one at her practice who was prepared to do face to face appointments.

A young child losing consciousness is not the sort of thing to be seen by a GP. More appropriate to go to the emergency department to be seen by the Paeds team.

I'm surprised that GPs have managed to stay outside of the NHS for long. Is there any benefit to patients in this set-up or is all the benefit on the GPs side?

They made a mistake when they persuaded Tony Blair to pay them more to do less work.

We had lots of prescribing nurses at my GPs, they were fantastic,you rarely had to see a GP and if they needed advice one popped in quickly to take a look at you. That's all stopped now, you can't even book a nurse appt now, it's all emergency appts on the day IF you manage to get through on time. We've resorted to going to the surgery at opening time to book a telephone appt , which is fine when working from home, not so fine if you need to go in to work.

My main concern would be - will it mean any GPs leave, or put anyone off becoming a GP? Or would it help to attract people to the job? I'm more concerned about whether we have enough GPs than the specifics of their contracts tbh.

**IF you manage to get through on the phone in time

Nationalising might solve some issues, but it's not going to magic up more GPs or other staff.

@primarium I’m curious about in which direction you think this is a joke?

I am a UK GP and also read this thinking “in my dreams”. The time we are contracted to provide a service is 8-6.30 so 10.5 hours. After that we start on the admin, paperwork, test results, letters, referrals etc. Typical days are minimum 12 hours.

This is a precursor to privatisation.

@110APiccadilly

My main concern would be - will it mean any GPs leave, or put anyone off becoming a GP? Or would it help to attract people to the job? I'm more concerned about whether we have enough GPs than the specifics of their contracts tbh.

It may initially but as new doctors qualify I think it will be accepted as normal. I had a ndn who was a consultant who retrained as a gp with the aim of getting to be a partner as it was more lucrative. Which surprised me.

@Thevoiceofreason2021

Well I’m no sure that nationalisation is the answer but the contracts in place at the moment clearly do not work. Maybe there needs to be different rates charged for telophpne appointments and in person. At my GP surgery there is a plethora of clinicians- nurses, paramedics, pharmacist but no drs . It’s cost cutting. They also have all of the GP rooms being used for covid vaccines - all of them ; 10 rooms! So they are making double bubble - getting paid for vaccinations as well as a GP service they are not providing. Where I understand GP surgeries need to make a profit, that is not the same as profiteering. Something needs to be done.

Government told GP’s that they were responsible for the vaccination rollout and that other services could be delayed. You can’t have both - there aren’t enough hours in the day.

If GP’s are ‘nationalised’ it could mean standard basic services across the country but as there is a huge shortage of GP’s, the services offered would be minimal. No working 10 days!

DH handed back his GP contract (and closed the practice as there were no GP’s to take it on) after 20 years as he’d had enough of how the government have treated GP’s, the mishandling of Covid and he couldn’t continue to work 10 hour days, six days a week.

I would worry that every practice would have to follow the same model, rather than being abele to adapt for their own local needs.

I would also be concerned that the standard model may be based on the worst performing surgeries out there rather than those currently offering brilliant service.

The NHS isn't in the best shape at the moment, I can't see heavy investment in rundown practices happening. Probably see some of the smaller practices shut down. People having to travel further to access services etc.

@olympicsrock

A young child losing consciousness is not the sort of thing to be seen by a GP. More appropriate to go to the emergency department to be seen by the Paeds team.

That is true 🤔

I wonder what would happen to the GP buy ins?

To be a partner in a GP practise, you generally have to buy in - figures can be anything from £30k-£200k, from GPs I know. presumably if the practises were nationalised, they would have to be given their buy-in money back. Else nobody would be on board!