To ask about the new Highway Code rules

[SparkleTwinkle101]

Just after some thoughts on this scenario as I can't tell who is supposed to do what. We live in an estate which begins with a massive secondary school. To enter and exit the estate onto the main road there are two mini roundabouts next to each other.

With the new rules regarding pedestrians does that mean that when turning off the roundabout into the estate we would need to give way to pedestrians. I can see that it will result in accidents as it is a very very busy road. Also I have no idea if that is the case how anyone will enter or exit the estate as there are constant students!

AIBU to be totally confused about what we are supposed to do

@Namelessnancy

I'm another one who hates it when a driver waves me across. In the new setup if I'm ready to cross a side street and the driver turning in stops for me I'll feel under pressure to cross. At this point my safety is dependent on drivers in the other lanes I need to cross also stopping. Scary!

This seems to happen quite often to me in a car because of a turn into a dual carriageway at the end of my road, the driver is waving me out but there's another line of traffic to cross that they seem unaware of and then get annoyed with me that I don't edge out and block their lane!

[quote Anystarinthesky]This video shows a driving instructor implementing the new rules. He is just turning left in the video. Says in the comments the rules apply to turning right too.

[/quote] The examples always show the 'easy ones'. Never the ones with cars turning right, multiple cars at a junction.

Another thing which worries me about it is visibility. On dark winter mornings and nights if a pedestrian is not necessarily very visible depending on lighting. I know when I've come across cyclists with no lights, reflectors or hi-viz it's given me a shock and they have a responsibility to ensure visibility. Will that be true of pedestrians too?

Maybe they should have waited for longer days to bring this in so it's easier to start with?

I don't have any problem.with the fundamental idea of pedestrians having priority but the practicalities at least in the early stages matter.

Like lots of people, sometimes I'm a pedestrian and sometimes I'm a driver. In fact I've been a pedestrian for a lot longer having only passed test 4 years ago. At no point as a pedestrian have I ever thought that it should be OK for me to just walk across when a car is turning at a junction. I'm perfectly happy to wait until it's clear. I don't understand what's prompted this decision but it is dangerous.

I think it's going to be more dangerous for pedestrians. If they just assume that traffic will stop and trust the driver to do the right thing there could easily be an accident.

I do not understand why they have given priority to weak human bodies over cars. It's nice for pedestrians but is it safe, sensible. A driver is rightly going to be looking for other cars/bikes when turning to ensure safety and now they have to look for pedestrians who would like to cross?? That frail bodied pedestrian waiting on the pavement is safe where it is and is not at that point part of a road using scenario so why introduce them into it with all the associated risks.

I'm worried about getting into a Mexican standoff situation at a junction. Where I'm turning in and there is a pedestrian waiting, so going by the new rules I stop, but they don't cross. Maybe (as PP have said) they want to wait for a clear road, or actually they weren't really ready to cross, or they haven't understood I'm stopping for them (often pedestrians don't make eye contact with drivers). How long do you wait, holding up the traffic behind? Technically that pedestrian is waiting to cross, what laws do you break pulling into the road across them if they don't actually cross.

Obviously I would (and always have done) stop for any pedestrian in the road, or obviously stepping into the road. But i think there's a lot more room for misinterpretation of intent with the new rules, particularly as I don't think they have been well communicated to non drivers.

Well, I'm glad to see that other people are as concerned as DH and I were when we had a walk the other day and tried to decide whether the turnings off a roundabout count as junctions. We decided that the guidance isn't very clear.

Where we live there's a very busy 40mph road with a large roundabout allowing turnings into quieter residential roads; sight lines aren't perfect because of curves/dips in the road. Pedestrians wait to cross the main road at either side of this roundabout, and often have to stand there for some significant time before there's a gap in the traffic. I can easily foresee all sorts of scenarios where accidents will happen with the new rules.

@Roystonv

I do not understand why they have given priority to weak human bodies over cars. It's nice for pedestrians but is it safe, sensible. A driver is rightly going to be looking for other cars/bikes when turning to ensure safety and now they have to look for pedestrians who would like to cross?? That frail bodied pedestrian waiting on the pavement is safe where it is and is not at that point part of a road using scenario so why introduce them into it with all the associated risks.

This. The result of this has to be less rather than more separation between pedestrians and traffic. It's hard to see how that will make pedestrians safer.

@Roystonv

I do not understand why they have given priority to weak human bodies over cars. It's nice for pedestrians but is it safe, sensible. A driver is rightly going to be looking for other cars/bikes when turning to ensure safety and now they have to look for pedestrians who would like to cross?? That frail bodied pedestrian waiting on the pavement is safe where it is and is not at that point part of a road using scenario so why introduce them into it with all the associated risks.

No, they have given people on the pavement priority over people in cars.

People driving cars always had to look out for pedestrians who might cross. It's basic hazard perception and was taught before you passed your theory test!

A driver is rightly going to be looking for other cars/bikes when turning to ensure safety and now they have to look for pedestrians who would like to cross??

Since the advent of mobile phones have you not been paying more attention to what pedestrians are doing anyway? I've always approached junctions with the view that I might or will probably need to stop if the pedestrian doesn't or is distracted

Of course I have looked out for heavens sake but that is different to actively encouraging pedestrians to leave a place of safety on the assumption that the driver will be able to stop safely whilst already negotiating other hazards, traffic etc.

@Roystonv

Of course I have looked out for heavens sake but that is different to actively encouraging pedestrians to leave a place of safety on the assumption that the driver will be able to stop safely whilst already negotiating other hazards, traffic etc.

Adding in cyclists who can now pass you either on the left or the right in stationary/slow moving traffic. Don’t know what happens if you are a car stopping on a busy road slowing down the traffic behind you while you wait for a pedestrian to cross on the side turning and a cyclist appears out of nowhere and cuts in front of you to turn. I certainly wouldn’t want to be that pedestrian in the road.

What does waiting to cross look like?

I approached a junction today - and there was a pedestrian glued to his phone - walking towards the end. Probably about 5m away. I stopped - but he didn't seem to care. Should I have only stopped if he had been at the side actually looking for a the right time to cross?

" A driver is rightly going to be looking for other cars/bikes when turning to ensure safety and now they have to look for pedestrians who would like to cross??"

Yes. It's not difficult.

"oh look, there is a pedestrian at the corner. I'll let them across".

The amount of shite being thrown about over this rule is absurd. Drivers just need to pay a little bit of attention to what is going on outside their metal box oh the fucking horror.

@WindyState

" A driver is rightly going to be looking for other cars/bikes when turning to ensure safety and now they have to look for pedestrians who would like to cross??"

Yes. It's not difficult.

"oh look, there is a pedestrian at the corner. I'll let them across".

The amount of shite being thrown about over this rule is absurd. Drivers just need to pay a little bit of attention to what is going on outside their metal box oh the fucking horror.

3 cars at a junction. And a pedestrian waiting to cross.

1 turning right into it. 1 waiting to turn out of it and looking for a gap in the traffic. One turning left into it. Also waiting for a gap in the traffic.

That will be interesting to see in which order things happen. I can see that ok on quiet roads - such as in housing estates - but in busy roads?

Inclined to think that many people who say it’ll be fine and we should understand hazard perception etc, may change their minds when some fuckwit who is not a driver and doesn’t know about braking distances etc, steps out in front of them! Like the guy further up the thread in the middle of the road not even at a junction!!
There will be a few.
By the law of averages there must be.
And a lot of rear end shunts. Which will cost the insurance industry some profits so they will hike all our profits up next year. Great.

All these measures to get us off the road and into walking cycling etc. are fine for European countries where the weather is better. In theory I’m in favour of active travel for those healthy enough to undertake it.

Although over here cycling a mile to work in the pishing rain every day for some will not be practical/possible on a daily basis. But I’m sure that’s a whole other thread

@megletthesecond

I don't want cars stopping for me.

I've drummed it into my children to never cross when a driver stops and "helpfully" waves them across. That's how accidents happen.

Totally agree, I hate it when they frantically wave you across and get annoyed when you stay put. I prefer to cross in my own time.

@cakeorwine good point and no idea.