Help! Builders and compensation

[thinkingaboutmydoorbell]

Hello Mumsnet,

I would like to ask for some general advice on some building work that has taken place at my property over the past 6 months.

I've tried as much as possible to remove any emotion from the sequence of events (although inside I've been screaming!).

We hired a firm via another firm to complete a loft conversion for us. Amazing reviews and felt in good hands from the salesperson visit. Estimate of works was 8-10 weeks (I had mentally figured 12 due to climate but they were insistent it would be 10 or less).

Work started in July 2021 and quickly seemed to fall apart....

• In the first week it was found that the architect had made some big calculation errors on construction including window placement and wall placement (meaning a different end result and damage to other parts of the house which were unplanned).

• The builders didn't secure the roof during rainy weather which caused a ceiling to collapse and water damage throughout ceilings right down to the ground floor (this hasn't been fixed).

• We have raised concerns throughout but the project manager, building firm or aggregator didn't respond or show up for arranged meetings at our property

• After 4 months the loft windows were fitted and that the work would be finished within days (it was not)

• We then (foolishly) agreed that as they had caused damage to our existing bathroom we would pay for them to replace (minus the damage) cost. They ripped out the bathroom but then didn't fit a new one - leaving us with no bathroom as the new loft one also had not been plumbed in

• In November they left with the work semi completed but to a really poor standard and missing one bathroom.

In total it has been about 32 weeks now and they have asked for final payment despite us sending a snag list about 8 weeks ago.

My question is - there is nothing out there that means we can ask for any kind of compensation or reduction due to the length of time, stress and shoddy work is there??

Thank you kindly for any advice or pointers. We do have a phone conversation today with some kind of solicitor/intermediary from the company. They kept going by email which has become messy and unproductive.

Oh god this is my idea of hell. You have my sympathies.

Could you take them to a small claims court depending on the amount you’re looking for? Sorry I don’t know much about these things but I didn’t want to read and run

This is shocking.

In your situation I would instruct my own solicitor to intervene.

Absolutely don't make the final payment until you are happy and the local authority/party wall surveyor has approved the work.

You need to claim against the professional
Indemnity insurance of either the architect or the builder. See if you get legal advice through your insurance and start there.

If the work isn't completed to your satisfaction, don't send the final payment - this is your only bargaining chip.

Definitely get some advice from a solicitor.

Thank so much for the support. I don't need to drip feed as I'm sure many people have had the same sort of experience - the constant no shows, the excuses, the disregard for you home and as mentioned I have been trying to keep it factual for my own sanity!

Sadly withholding of payment doesn't seem to be an option as it would make us in breach of contract. The contract outlines one thing and in the next breath says another!

There just doesn't seem to be anything around compensation on taking so much longer than "estimated" as we haven't incurred any real cost by it taking longer - just our sanity and ability to have Christmas with family at our home. We also just couldn't live any longer with the poor decoration so we have redone a lot of that ourselves over the past few weeks.

It doesn't help that the solicitor keeps referring to me as "Sir" which is winding me up no end!!!

Is the work all now complete to a satisfactory standard?

What will they do if you don't pay? Take you to court?
Take them to court. Use the money to pay a proper builder to finish.

You need proper legal advice. That is not available here - what you will get is google lawyers making all kinds of assertions based on a combination of US law and misunderstandings.
You need proper legal advice from a proper lawyer - £100 for half and hour from them will be a much better investment than wasting time on here.

@Dishwashersaurous

Is the work all now complete to a satisfactory standard?

Oh gosh no. Sorry I do have a drip feed! In the new year the bathroom flooded AGAIN but this time due to a pipe that wasn't fitted correctly which caused water to burst through and flood floors for a second time. On this occasion they responded quickly and the pipe was connected however I now have a hole in the ceiling where they cut through to fix the pipe.

We are being told by the solicitor that we need to let them come back to finish and complete the work to a satisfactory standard. But what will have changed in their ability to complete work better the second time around?! I really don't want to be the blocker but I also don't feel comfortable with them coming back. I would rather just draw a line and not do the final payment.

Right. So you need to focus on getting the work done to a satisfactory standard, by someone.

Not the delay.

Getting the work completed is the important thing.

They can always argue that there were unexpected events, problems etc and there is probably something in the contract about no timescales being guaranteed.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

You need proper legal advice. That is not available here - what you will get is google lawyers making all kinds of assertions based on a combination of US law and misunderstandings. You need proper legal advice from a proper lawyer - £100 for half and hour from them will be a much better investment than wasting time on here.

I agree and will look to do that today. Google has been a minefield.

I guess what I am looking for is any examples from real life people that have had any compensation or for someone to say "sorry doorbell but you're stuffed. Pay them off and move on".

In a way I would rather do that and just do the corrections myself in my own time.

Withholding the final payment would not put you in breach, they haven't fulfilled or completed the contract. Do not pay them until they have completed the work to a satisfactory standard.

You need proper legal advice with someone you can show the photos of the damage too. Hope you get it sorted op

I think you need to engage a solicitor, though unfortunately that would add significantly to costs. I don't know what your chances of compensation are but I would argue (although I'm not a lawyer!) that you are not in breach of contract; a contract is a two way agreement and they have not held up their end , having failed to carry out the agreed work to a reasonable standard and even worse, showed no regard for your home and caused further damage in the process.

Out of curiosity, why did you allow things to continue when it became clear early on that this was not going to go smoothly, and when various people were not responding to your concerns or showing up for meetings? Were you trying to give them the opportunity to improve, or was it going to be difficult to find an alternative? I'm not having a go, I'm just trying to understand because I think if it was me I would have said right, everything stops until the project manager or whoever is in charge, shows up as agreed and we get every single thing sorted out and not another penny till that happens.

I agree with others that you should withhold final payment until some sort of satisfactory agreement has been reached because if you pay, they will view that as the matter is concluded. And then, once it is finally concluded, never touch them again with a barge pole .

I feel for you and hope you can get it sorted out. Your home is, or should be, your sanctuary.

@Dishwashersaurous

Right. So you need to focus on getting the work done to a satisfactory standard, by someone.

Not the delay.

Getting the work completed is the important thing.

They can always argue that there were unexpected events, problems etc and there is probably something in the contract about no timescales being guaranteed.

Thank you. Yup no guarantees and "reasonable" delays talked about so it is so ambiguous.

I've asked for clarification on a couple of the contract points and have been told that if i can't comprehend the contract then they can't explain it. I mean....?!

Yes sadly I am going to have to seek legal advice. This isn't even over a a large sum of money - sub £5k so on one hand I just want to pay and it be over but on the other I just can't stomach it.

I would focus on getting then to pay for someone else to put the work right

Are you in a trade union through your work? I get free legal advice through mine and they advised on an issue with our previous house. or try your house insurance (before you do the latter did you notify them you were having the work done as if not can be an issue for your insurance I think?) I'd cancel today's meeting with their solicitor until you've had your own advice. Otherwise like a pp said pay for small amount of legal advice, may be worth £200

@movpov

I think you need to engage a solicitor, though unfortunately that would add significantly to costs. I don't know what your chances of compensation are but I would argue (although I'm not a lawyer!) that you are not in breach of contract; a contract is a two way agreement and they have not held up their end , having failed to carry out the agreed work to a reasonable standard and even worse, showed no regard for your home and caused further damage in the process.

Out of curiosity, why did you allow things to continue when it became clear early on that this was not going to go smoothly, and when various people were not responding to your concerns or showing up for meetings? Were you trying to give them the opportunity to improve, or was it going to be difficult to find an alternative? I'm not having a go, I'm just trying to understand because I think if it was me I would have said right, everything stops until the project manager or whoever is in charge, shows up as agreed and we get every single thing sorted out and not another penny till that happens.

I agree with others that you should withhold final payment until some sort of satisfactory agreement has been reached because if you pay, they will view that as the matter is concluded. And then, once it is finally concluded, never touch them again with a barge pole .

I feel for you and hope you can get it sorted out. Your home is, or should be, your sanctuary.

Thanks MovPov.

You raise a good point. Although things weren't going smoothly, work was happening and although frustrating and slow we kept telling ourselves it could only be a few more weeks. Also to find someone else to take over at that point would also have been high risk - a long wait and costly for someone to finish half a job. Especially a job that is supposedly quite standard and quick - it was just a bog standard loft conversion!

Actually due to the decorating we have redone over the past 6 weeks or so we do have a really nice space and it has been coming together. So we don't really have a leg to stand on as much of the finish looks pretty good - because we have redone it! I know we probably shouldn't have but I just couldn't sit any longer when I'm (cough husband) fully capable of filling, sanding, painting and my husband could refit doors etc. Even the water damage we can sort ourselves.

Oh definitely I'm done with home renovations. Why are these stories all too common?

@BMIbum

Are you in a trade union through your work? I get free legal advice through mine and they advised on an issue with our previous house. or try your house insurance (before you do the latter did you notify them you were having the work done as if not can be an issue for your insurance I think?) I'd cancel today's meeting with their solicitor until you've had your own advice. Otherwise like a pp said pay for small amount of legal advice, may be worth £200

Interesting. My company is part of a trust that provides free legal support. Thank you that is a great point and I'll reach out to them.

The timing is a red herring here. You should focus on the fact that they have failed to fulfil their obligations under the contract and that the work performed is to an unsatisfactory standard. They are in repudiatory breach and you are entitled to withhold monies until the work is completed and to a satisfactory standard. Given the issues you’ve had, you could suggest to them that not only are you withholding the final payment, you will be seeking reimbursement from them of any additional sums you incur by having another firm fix their shoddy work and finish the job. It is also perfectly reasonable for you to tell them you have lost confidence in their ability to complete the work to the required standard given their numerous errors and poorly executed work to date.