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Please help - vulnerable adult and social services, GP failings

115 replies

soworriedaboutthis · 27/01/2022 17:20

Hi, posting for traffic.

My dad is a type 1 diabetic and has mobility issues that came on quite suddenly last year. He was self-neglecting, refusing all help from family, basically hiding himself away at home. He's very reclusive.

We took him to the GP regarding his lack of mobility and issues at home (he's not managing basic self care) and they didn't really do much. Suggested he wait for a neurology appointment that he'd already been waiting months for but did order some blood tests to be done by the district nurse at home.

A few days later the district nurse arrived at his home to find him unresponsive on the sofa. Firemen had to be called to force entry to the home and an ambulance. He was having a serious hypo and was taken to hospital.

At this point we contacted social services to raise a safeguarding concern and the paramedics said they would also raise a safeguarding concern. We discovered he wasn't buying food, eating properly, washing, showering. Totally self-neglecting. Social services said that because he was in hospital, his needs were being met so they could log it but not do anything at that time.

Throughout his hospital stay he took his insulin incorrectly (though insisted he was taking it right) and had numerous hypos. He had various scans and tests to uncover the reason for his sudden mobility problems and nothing serious was found. He was diagnosed with peripheral neuropathy but the drs said they didn't understand why he couldn't walk as he should be able to.

He was discharged home and given a care package to help him. He refused them entry to his house once he went home and that was the end of it. He's deemed as having capacity to make his own decisions and so was entitled to refuse care.

In December he had another serious hypo, unresponsive in bed. This time he was found by a district nurse who had come to review how he was getting on with his diabetes. Again, the firemen had to force entry to his home and an ambulance was called. Again he went to hospital. He continued to mismanage his insulin and was difficult with staff.

This time he was discharged in January this year with a reablement care package meaning that he would have a lunch and dinner time carer to assist with meals. He allowed them in for the most part although wouldn't have food in for them to cook. The care company don't relay information to us reliably so we don't always know what's going on.

On Saturday my dad turned his lunch time carer away - he can't explain why and thinks he was already in the early stages of a hypo. We weren't informed by the care company. The dinner time carer found him unresponsive in bed later that day and called an ambulance (she had access to the house because he now has a key safe installed) This time was the worst he's been. His blood sugar was 1.4 which is extremely low. Previous times it was around 2.

He refused to go to hospital against paramedics advice and then was left at home. I called the emergency social services on Sunday and was told I needed to call back on Monday. On Monday I called Social services again and was told I needed to contact his care worker that had been assigned after his hospital stay - she's in charge of his reablement package. I wasn't able to get hold of her until Wednesday despite numerous calls and messages but she said she's looking into it. Whatever that means.

GP was also contacted on Monday morning in an urgent request as we wanted to request that district nurses visit him every day to help him check his blood sugar, help him administer his insulin and check that he's eaten as the carers aren't able to do any medical care. GP said she would visit him the next day to speak to him about a way to move forward.

She never came back to us to update us. We have no idea what was discussed at that appointment as my dad is extremely difficult to speak to and he frequently lies/gets confused.

Contacted the GP surgery on Wednesday for an update - no response.

Today, I messaged my dad to check in and he informed me that he'd had another serious hypo, ambulance called etc. Found out from the care company after calling them that he'd been found by his lunch time carer unresponsive in bed again. Extremely low blood sugar. The care company didn't inform us until we called them.

We've contacted the GP again to explain that something isn't right with his health, he's complaining that he's hypoing in his sleep because he's too tired to wake up and eat and she's unavailable but the receptionist relayed a message to us that there's nothing she can do yet because she's waiting on advice from the diabetic team.

The care worker in charge is kicking off with the care agency about their lack of communication with us but other than that, she's not done anything. She said he still hasn't been allocated an actual social worker - I'm not sure what the difference is between her and a social worker.

I'm at an absolute loss as to where to go from here. The GP has described him as a ticking time bomb and it's only a matter of time before he has his next serious hypo but nothing really seems to be happening. No one is standing up and taking charge of the situation, it's just me and my sister desperately trying to call around everyone to find out what we can do.

If anyone has any experience with social services or is a GP and can advise what we can do it would be really appreciated. This latest hypo is only 5 days after his last one and I'm so worried about him. These aren't minor episodes, each time he is completely unresponsive, very close to death with no way of helping himself or communicating to someone that he's unwell.

My sister and I both have a very strained relationship with him and he's awful to us both but I just can't leave him to deal with this alone. He's so reluctant for help and we don't know if he's abusing his insulin or not eating on purpose to make himself unwell or if he's genuinely struggling to manage his diabetes alone. It's all such a mess.

Please if anyone can help in any way, it would mean a lot. Where do we go from here?

OP posts:
soworriedaboutthis · 28/01/2022 07:41

@Wingedharpy

Opticians for a eye test for starters. Is he drinking alcohol in any/greater quantities than previously?
No alcohol, not that I'm aware of. Nothing has been found in his home. He can't go to the shops by himself anyway and won't do anything to sort his own food out so pretty much everything he has in has been arranged by us for him.
OP posts:
soworriedaboutthis · 28/01/2022 08:07

@User2638483

Is he managing his own personal care like washing and dressing himself? Can he get himself a drink and something to eat? Can he do his laundry? Has he had falls? (Other than collapsing due to the diabetes)

Just wondering if he would be eligible under the care act. As he needs to have needs in two areas and managing medication is not one of them. But absolutely pursue the care act assessment, I’m just saying that issues around his insulin are not an ‘eligible social care need’ if you see what I mean, although he may have others that do mean overall he is eligible.

He's not managing his personal care at all.

He's not washing, he's dirty and smells. He struggles to have a shower and he was given a shower seat I think because of his mobility issues but I don't think he's using it. The hospital discharge team, or nurses I cant remember, said that as long as he's able to have a body wash, there's no requirement for him to be able to shower.

He really struggles to get his own food. He's had a report done on the first week or 2 of his reablement care and they've stated that he can't transfer food unaided, he cant/won't prepare food himself. He grazes on what he can access easily but has often told me he's too tired to get up to the kitchen and get food, which I think is why he has ended up with meal time carers. I assume he can access water. He's never said he cant.

He cant do laundry at all and hasn't had any clean clothes for months because his washing machine is broken. First I was aware of it was end of October and I've repeatedly asked him to let me wash his clothes or send them away to be laundered or let me help him fix or buy a new washing machine but he says he'll 'get around to doing it'

He wasn't wearing clothes, just an old dressing gown mostly before he started having carers in so I will ask them if he's dressed every time they visit. I do think he can put clothes on though as he manages to dress himself for drs appointments when my sister has taken him but he's very untidy. Social services when I called them previously said him being dirty is his choice.

He's admitted to us that he has regular falls. We've also found dried blood stains in his house that would indicate he's had accidents but he has been offered walking frames, grab rails and he says he doesn't want them.

He often tells us he's so exhausted and can't do things. So if he says he's not eaten it's usually because he's too tired to get up off the sofa or it takes him a long time to get out of bed in the morning because he's weak.

When he was found the first time hypoing in November he was unresponsive with an electric heater on because his boiler had broken and he hadn't told us (it's now been fixed) and no fire alarms in his house. The fire man were in in arms about the fire risk and fitted alarms for him there and then but I worry about him doing something similar again and not being able to get himself out of the house in an emergency.

OP posts:
User2638483 · 28/01/2022 08:53

Ok then sounds like he will be eligible under the care act 👍
Just can be tricky if Medication is the only area of need

User2638483 · 28/01/2022 08:54

Re. The fire risk
He could (in my area anyway) have a linked smoke alarm which goes direct to the fire service if it goes off

User2638483 · 28/01/2022 08:55

He could also have other televised that knows when he has dropped to the floor or has been still for a long time, or got up off the bed or sofa and not returned there for a certain period of time

User2638483 · 28/01/2022 08:55

*telecare that should be

ChristmasPlanning · 28/01/2022 09:09

No advice but so sad that you're struggling to get him the help he needs Thanks

hedgehogger1 · 28/01/2022 09:11

Surely he'd only ever capacity when his blood sugar is correct and it sounds like his blood sugar is only correct when he's in hospital. I've no advice but it sounds like a terrible situation. I guess you just need to keep pushing that he lacks the capacity to make these decisions

Ch33secak3 · 28/01/2022 09:25

I don't know if this has been suggested yet but could you find out from his GP to find out whether there is a community complex care team? Some healthcare trusts have them, I am not sure if this applies to all trusts though. Due to the self neglect in regards to personal care, refusal of assistance with care, wanting to stay at home rather than go to a care or nursing home and serious issues with managing his diabetes medication and eating he needs a multidisciplinary approach and there may be a community integrated team that focuses on older persons with complex health and social needs. Teams that I have come across have knowledge of local resources for different needs and they work with patients to find out what needs to be addressed to help the patient live well and will set goals with that person and help them get access to what they need. However, a referral to them will usually need to be discussed with your father first and he needs to consent to their initial visit. I find the hardest part is getting the initial consent to make a referral and sometimes needs to be broached many times and in different ways. They wont be called complex care teams across most trusts though however if a integrated community care team for older persons exists, your GP should be able to find out the name of this service and make a referral.

soworriedaboutthis · 28/01/2022 10:36

I just want to say thank you so much to everyone that's continuing to message and provide insight, it's so helpful and I really appreciate it. I'm also sad to hear of other people having to go through this with their family members. It's so distressing.

To answer a few questions, my dad is in his 50s so not old at all really and I hate the thought of him in a home, I would love to get a plan in place for him so he can stay where he's happy but he's just not safe at home currently until something changes.

I've just found out this morning that he's been offered some kind of care link that notifies the ambulance service if he hypos or has a fall or whatever and he's refused this. Said he doesn't need it.

I genuinely think in his mind he doesn't see the need for it because he's either in denial about how bad things are or he's too proud to get help or he's genuinely just not able to tie up the consequences of his actions and see that his lack of co operation is directly putting himself in danger. He keeps saying the drs need to sort it, it's the carers fault for being late, it's the hospitals fault he was hypoing in hospital because the food wasn't right. He just won't hold himself accountable for anything.

I spoke to social service this morning to ask the following:

  • does he have a social worker (no) how do I help him get one (she said she wasn't the best person to advise on that?!)
  • Has a capacity assessment been done? (She couldn't tell me that. Either didn't know or couldn't find it in his notes)
  • I asked how long he had left on reablement and what would happen after that, (she said she wasn't the best person to give me advice on that and I need to speak to his key worker)

She wanted to transfer me through to the key worker.

We were going around in circles and I got no answers so it was left at that. She said she wasn't able to access his full notes due to confidentiality so I don't even know what to say to that. It's so confusing.

Found out that his key worker is a 'social care support worker' so I don't know if that's helpful to anyone?

The support worker called my sister this morning and said she's called a meeting with her management and the care agency to look at increasing his care package so we will wait and see what happens after that.

OP posts:
Ikeptgoing · 28/01/2022 11:31

@Welshmaenad

Re: capacity - legally, unless he has a diagnosed "disorder of the mind or brain" there are no grounds to even proceed with a capacity assessment. That is why everyone is saying he has capacity - legally they must assume he does.

Care workers can only prompt medication in pre-doses blister packs, they can't get involved with insulin or blood glucose monitoring as they aren't medically trained to interpret the outcome. It would need to be a district nurse - this is the angle I'd be pushing with the GP if this was my case.

This ^^

He isn't managing his diabetes well long term, causing 3 hypoglycaemic attacks in past 6 months. He's abivuiusky told GP and hospital staff he knows what to do and when. Any capacity assessment of whether he understands or can manage his diabetes management is for a doctor or nurse to do. It isn't social care, but health care, medical staff are best placed to assess this capacity question. No social worker would.

Safeguarding is entirely different, it seems here it's about GP deciding when/if this pattern of hypos and hospital admissions/ attendance of paramedics, he is not coping with his diabetic medical needs. GP surgery can arrange Community nurses to visit 2x daily and do diabetes oversight even if he does his own injections sometimes he can't read the measurements right.

Social care can offer to provide meal delivery services (he pays for) once a day, carers to offer drinks and meals if he is unable to do that, carers that prompt tablets from pharmacy filled nomad pack if they are already going in at that time, personal care and mobility support but they cannot manage his insulin dependent diabetes. It would be unlawful for social care to provide health medical care. I'd be pushing GP to get nurses visiting

If he went into a care home due to poor diabetic management he may require a nursing home (the CCG funds free nursing care payments of Nursing homes to legally cover health care nursing side)

WildPoinsettia · 28/01/2022 14:24

Found out that his key worker is a 'social care support worker' so I don't know if that's helpful to anyone?

That's her job title. Basically means carer. The company she works for provides social care ie helps people who can't manage life all by themselves for reason of illness or infirmity. Not everyone who needs care has a "carer" as we think of them eg for help washing. Sometimes it's more support with things like paying bills, prompting the client to clean the home etc. Support worker/carer /whatever, they're not a social worker so they have no power (other than the power to do their job and report any concerns)

WildPoinsettia · 28/01/2022 14:26

That is to say, their professional opinion is important and doctors/social workers/other officials are possibly more likely to listen to it than family opinion. I'm not saying they're pointless! And obviously they provide the help they provide.

WildPoinsettia · 28/01/2022 14:41

does he have a social worker (no) how do I help him get one (she said she wasn't the best person to advise on that?!)

That sounds like fobbing you off. Try rewording it: Dad needs a care act assessment. Get their name, ask their job title, and the company they work for, plus department within that company. That should give you the information to know whether you're talking to a social worker or not. If not, you want the duty social worker. You're reporting a vulnerable elderly person who you believe needs a care act assessment because he's neglecting himself and keeps ending up in hospital.

Maybe as others say it's a healthy issue not a social care issue but you won't know if he qualifies for any help if he hasn't had the damn assessment! They won't want to do the assessment because if he's found to need help and doesn't have the funds to pay for it (means tested financial assessment says how much the council can charge him) then social services has to foot the bill. Which they don't want to do.

WildPoinsettia · 28/01/2022 14:45

The support worker called my sister this morning and said she's called a meeting with her management and the care agency to look at increasing his care package so we will wait and see what happens after that.

You have that rare creature, a butt kicker. Maybe her company is going to report dad to social services too. With a overview of the help they think he needs. Social worker has to consider other professionals opinion when assessing a person to decide what care they need.

WildPoinsettia · 28/01/2022 14:50

She said she wasn't able to access his full notes due to confidentiality

Sorry for all the posts I'm doing this on a phone so it's not easy to reply to everything at once.

Next time ask what notes she can/can't access? Eg she's not working for the council so can't access social services notes, or she's a social worker but can't access doctor's medical records etc. It will help you understand who you're speaking to.

Half the problem is not knowing how the system works and being told only half a piece of information by someone, meaning you're none the wiser.

WildPoinsettia · 28/01/2022 15:22

I've just found out this morning that he's been offered some kind of care link that notifies the ambulance service if he hypos or has a fall or whatever and he's refused this. Said he doesn't need it

This is good he was offered it, would be a massive help to keeping him safe. Not good he turned it down. He's literally turned down something that could save his life if he hypos.

You're trying to convince people he's not coping and he's trying to sabotage it painting a picture of someone who's fine. The trouble is it suits the officials to believe he's fine. They're overworked and busy with all the people who desperately want and need help, it's understandable (although maybe wrong of them) if perhaps they sometimes have a "screw you" attitude towards someone who won't help themselves or take responsibility. Then there's the issue that if he has capacity nobody can force him to accept help, their hands are tied in those circumstances.

Things have to be pretty bad before someone gets put in a home. Places are for those who need it, not those who refuse to help themselves and their families would prefer it just so they know they're safe. You can privately fund for that reason if you wish/are able to. Whether he'd be assessed as needing to stay there when your money ran out, who knows? Depends on the state of him at the time.

I can't help wondering if some older people have had enough of living with their conditions and are deliberately trying to hasten their demise, with a quality over quantity viewpoint. I guess they'd never tell their families that if they are.

The whole situation must be so upsetting for you. Flowers

Welshmaenad · 28/01/2022 15:38

@WildPoinsettia

Found out that his key worker is a 'social care support worker' so I don't know if that's helpful to anyone?

That's her job title. Basically means carer. The company she works for provides social care ie helps people who can't manage life all by themselves for reason of illness or infirmity. Not everyone who needs care has a "carer" as we think of them eg for help washing. Sometimes it's more support with things like paying bills, prompting the client to clean the home etc. Support worker/carer /whatever, they're not a social worker so they have no power (other than the power to do their job and report any concerns)

I actually think she's with the Reablement team as what we used to call a social work assistant - basically a care manager who performs some of functions of a digital worker but us unqualified and therefore can't use the title. They usually handle the less complex cases, though I've known some cracking and very capable SWAs/care managers in my time.

Social workers can and do perform capacity assessments and this may be a reason they want him allocated to someone qualified. They do, though, need that jumping off point of a diagnosis in order to proceed with the four stage test. I think the referral to memory clinic to establish if there is an underlying problem is a positive step.

OP where are you - England, Wales etc? There may be some support available to get his washing machine replaced if he's struggling with that but I'm only familiar with Welsh schemes.

SafeguardingSocialWorker · 28/01/2022 19:27

@WildPoinsettia

Found out that his key worker is a 'social care support worker' so I don't know if that's helpful to anyone?

That's her job title. Basically means carer. The company she works for provides social care ie helps people who can't manage life all by themselves for reason of illness or infirmity. Not everyone who needs care has a "carer" as we think of them eg for help washing. Sometimes it's more support with things like paying bills, prompting the client to clean the home etc. Support worker/carer /whatever, they're not a social worker so they have no power (other than the power to do their job and report any concerns)

I know you are trying to help but I'm afraid this is incorrect information.

The social care support worker works for the local authority. They are a pay grade below social workers.

This social care support worker works in the reablement team. Their job is to assess week on week what level of care the OP's dad need during their reablement period and build a picture of what his needs are on behalf of the local authority. They may liaise with a contracted care agency the local authority uses to provide the actual reablement.

At the end of the reablement period the social care support worker will have made an assessment about whether OP's dad is now back to his baseline and can manage without further support, or if he needs a full Care Act Assessment/ allocation to a social worker.

If its the local authority I think it is then OP will have been on the phone to the call centre the local authority uses to take all their social care calls. Their job is just to take information and pass messages on, they will be very limited about what information they can give out.

Justmebeingme245 · 28/01/2022 20:04

Have you thought about getting him a Dexcom (continuous glucose monitor). It can send alerts to his phone and yours if he is hyper/hypo. It needs changing every 10 days. My daughter has had one for a couple of years now.
At least then you will be alerted that he has low blood sugar and can maybe intervene/get some help.

notanothertakeaway · 28/01/2022 20:06

@jacks11

I understand the frustration, but declaring someone lacks capacity is not straightforward, nor is it done lightly. You are potentially removing a person’s liberty and right to make decisions. And as others have said this can be tricky to be absolute/definitive about and can be variable. Patients can and do make bad decisions for themselves.

Even if he was declared to lack capacity, it’s not as simple as you getting to decide what happens. Without power of attorney you have no legal powers (though imagine you would be consulted)- it will have to go to guardianship order via the court of protection (not quick, nor cheap). Whether you or social work would be appointed guardian(s) is totally situation dependent.

However, in the short-term if he lacks capacity and cannot be persuaded to care for himself/ allow carers in/ move to a suitable residential placement voluntarily, or to be admitted to hospital (if necessary), I would point out that the GP (or nurse or social worker) have limited abilities to actually enforce change. In fact, it could be that the only way anyone could force him to do something/go somewhere if he refuses/resists would be to detain him under the mental health act- it’s not a straightforward “right, he lacks capacity- take him to x, force him into a car/ambulance” or “y will come do z, whether he likes it or not”. You can take the decision against the persons wishes once incapacity is declared, but physically enforcing things is less straightforward and would require legal process to be started.

With regards to the GP- they have referred to diabetic team, which seems entirely reasonable. If there is to be a change of type of insulin, for example, then it’s not the GP’s role to do that. They can advise a reduction in dose (or increase)/slight tweaks but if he decides to ignore it (or can’t remember the changes), they can’t really solve that. If they feel capacity is not clear cut it is absolutely right that they seek a second opinion from psychiatry/ memory clinic.

I think you also need to clarify whether the district nurses in your dad’s area will accept a referral for giving insulin every day/monitoring blood sugars- especially if he is on a basal-bolus regime (which is usually three times a day). In our area this would not be offered as a long- term solution (and certainly not for insulin given three times daily)- the nurses don’t have the capacity to visit three times a day (at meal-times) long-term. This might be different in other areas and maybe some district nurse teams do offer this service. GP’s refer to district nurses but cannot instruct them to do anything. Carers can prompt him to check blood sugars but cannot do them for him, nor can they administer medication for him.

If you think there is a visual problem you need to take him to an optician, if you can, or arrange an optician to do a home assessment if he can’t leave the house. GP’s are not best places to do full eye tests.

It’s an invidious position to be in- you want the best for your Dad but he either can’t or won’t help himself. I hope it gets easier for you. I’m not trying to be negative but there is no point banging your head of a brick wall trying to get people to do things they can’t do. In my experience asking for something that can be delivered gets further than demanding something that can’t be done.

Good advice from @jacks11
Justmebeingme245 · 28/01/2022 20:12

Also, another idea might be to get him a pump - therefore his insulin background doses are pre-programmed in and he just needs to put the carbs in for his meals for his bolus.
There is also a Medtronic pump which is linked to a cgm and adjusts insulin automatically when it detects possible hypo/hyper. He obviously needs extra care but this could be a way to help with the danger of hypos.

ButtockUp · 28/01/2022 20:31

I'm so very sorry that your father and your family are having to endure this nightmare scenario.

We endured this with mum. No one would accept responsibility and no one would do anything. Her GP was in utter despair.

I won't go into the ( very grisly and frightful ) details but it seemed like the system was utterly against us, despite the medical advice.

The elderly care system, in my opinion , is utterly broken.

LetsGoParty · 29/01/2022 00:59

No advise but lots and lots of sympathy. It's just awful that you all have to go through this. I really hope you get the help you all need.

soworriedaboutthis · 29/01/2022 08:22

I think @SafeguardingSocialWorker has it here. I was told by the contact at social services that the support worker could do most things that a social worker could, but not all so I think she does have some authority.

I also agree that the person on the phone at social services seemed to have the role of collecting information rather than giving much out.

I’ve made some progress with the support worker. I had an extensive conversation with her yesterday and requested a multi agency meeting between the social side, my dads GP, the district nurses and the diabetic team to discuss a plan of moving forward and she said she’s going to try and set that up but my dad would have to consent to this. I’m worried he might not but at least she’s trying.

She also took his GP’s details and said she was going to phone the practice and liaise with her before the weekend if possible to discuss his case.

I did ask her if a care act assessment had been done and her response was ‘one should have been done’ which would form part of his reablement but I didn’t get a definitive yes or no. I asked if my dad had received the care plan and she said he should have been sent one via post so I will ask him.

She also said with regards to capacity, a formal assessment hasn’t been done but they make ongoing notes that adds weight to any capacity rulings further down the line. The GP is visiting on Monday with another Dr as she has concerns about his capacity at this stage but I’m not sure if a ruling will be made there and then.

His diabetic review yesterday was a real eye opener. We discovered from his libra monitor that he’s hypoing multiple times every single day, scanning his machine (so he’s aware of this) but not doing anything about it. When the nurse asked him what blood sugar level classes as a hypo he gave an incorrect answer. He also said he wakes up every morning with high blood sugar and has to take extra insulin but again this wasn’t right as his monitor shows he’s low every morning, not high. He couldn’t understand the concept of carb counting and was very confused and angry with the nurse who had to call another member of staff in for support. He didn’t understand why he had to adjust his insulin if he reduced the carb content of his meals (which is something I’m sure he used to do) it’s clear he’s struggling to manage. The more confused he was getting, the angrier he was getting so it’s clear to me somethings not right.

He requested a pump and they’re looking into that for him and I think they gave my sister details for her to sync his monitor to her phone so she gets notifications if he hypos. Hopefully she can get this set up.

@Welshmaenad I’m in England

I’m going to keep pushing for a social worker as the support worker has said that one is needed and that reablement is not the right care for my dad and he needs domiciliary care which will be means tested so I think she’s going to speak to my dad about a financial review. I very much believe he will refuse to give his financial information though and I know without doubt he will refuse care if he has to pay for it. He’s reluctant enough as it is.

He’s currently earning SSP and has been on long term sick from his job whilst all this has been going on so I don’t know what he’d qualify for.

OP posts:
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