To wonder what it's like working for the civil service?

[malificent7]

I do enjoy my current role in healthcare but i've been hearing about how good the perks of the civil service are.
Tbh i know nothing about it and I suppose there are a wide range of roles, pay grades etc. Please can you all tell me what it's like? Good and bad.

I've recently left to retrain.

I would say crap pay compared to private sector equivalent jobs but very secure, loads of room for progression (in big cities anyway). Good union support. Flexible working although in some departments there is an unwritten competitiveness about staying in the office as much as possible, going to every meeting during the day to show face, then working until late. Don't get sucked into this, it is the most unproductive, performative nonsense there is.

Very bureaucratic and if your face doesn't fit it can be miserable as departments can be so set in their ways and culture (I'm thinking Whitehall). Clunky recruitment processes.

However, I had a really interesting career, got loads of experience, travelled, did language training, was treated well when I had to have time off sick (ongoing illness).

In the place where my face didn't fit, I just built my experience there into good conpetencies, dusted myself down, and moved on. There are always jobs available and it isn't looked upon unfavourably to move fairly regularly as long as there is some logic to your path- either moving up or getting relevant experience.

There's scope to move around the country and overseas (although overseas posts are being cut, certainly in the home office).

You'll come across plenty of examples of Peter's Principle due to the job security and opportunities for progression, meaning sometimes inept senior staff who would have been long gone in the private sector.

Overall a positive experience for me, if some way from perfect.

@BlueStripedTowel but the CS culture is none of those things they’ve become legends in their own lunchtime and many would not last in private sector one month 🤩😬 forward thinking - nope promotion yes at the expense of anyone

Some bits are ok but the worst is the absolute lack of training to do a job that you can be personally sued in if you make a mistake.
There's some flexibility but I usually end up working way more than my hours and not being able to claim the flexi back. I'm also expected to work away from home regularly but expected not to claim the allowable time and tiny budget given for this.
The amount of work they expect me to pump out is a joke. There's not enough time in the day to get the work done let alone sit through all the dire meetings.
As there is some availability to work from home, if you're sick you're expected to work from home instead of actually being off sick. There's no benefit anymore for being there any length of time as all new staff now get the same leave allowance and pay.
Also, my pension is crap, not the amazing thing people seem to assume. I've also had to move office 3 times as they kept getting closed and my commute increased to between 4 and 5 hours a day at one point. This should go down to between 2 and 3 when I go back after maternity leave.

@HeadToToesNo is 100% right.

DWP is notoriously bad. Civil Service roles are exceptionally diverse. Pay currently differs between departments but general conditions such as pension, annual leave and sick pay and maternity I think are common across most sectors.

I currently work in MoD. Very diverse work but constant organisational changes (military bosses as well as our political masters like to make their mark) which unfortunately mean lots of recruitment freezes. My team are currently at 50% and has been for over two years now for a variety of reasons. I understand the reasons but it’s shit trying to keep up. We just have to keep trying to do more with less staff.

Military colleagues and bosses are either brilliant or utter twonks…very rare for anything in between

On the plus side is the flexible working (not everyone is allowed but my organisation does) and the pension scheme is probably still one of the best available even if it is no longer as good as it used to be (used to be non contributory, 1/80th of pensionable final salary x length of service so in theory you could have a maximum pension that was half your final salary). Holiday entitlement is 25 days plus 9 public and privilege days (we get a day for the Queen’s Birthday!) rising to a maximum of 30 days. If you work flexi hours you can (depending on local arrangements) have a maximum 3 days per month so that really bumps up the holidays. Luckily I’ve not had to have any long term sick leave but I believe it’s a maximum of 5 months full pay and 5 months. I believe there is even 5 days special leave for volunteering.

For the part of the country I live in I think the pay is okay, but again not as good as it used to be. I am sure that there are technical grades or specialists who could earn more in private industry but my role doesn’t require specific professional qualifications so if I compare my role to general middle management support or admin roles I don’t think I could earn more outside the Civil Service.

For me the TACOS are good enough for now to keep me where I am but I don’t know for how much longer. I’m running on fumes most of the time trying to keep up. Despite the popular view of Civil Servants being jobs worths and clock watchers I work with some exceptionally dedicated people who work very hard and put in the hours to attempt to provide services to our customers and the chain of command. Of course there are some lazy arses but that’s not exclusive to the civil service…I know from friends and family that there are wasters in all sorts of lines of work.

I think most of what I would say has already been said. the key things for me are that every department is different, that civil service covers a huge range of jobs and some of those can really make a huge difference to people's lives. It's interesting work, particularly if you're in an area where you have a lot of contact with ministers, I have some wonderful colleagues (and one or two awful ones) the money isn't great but it's enough, the job security is good,

[quote Parsley1234]@BlueStripedTowel but the CS culture is none of those things they’ve become legends in their own lunchtime and many would not last in private sector one month 🤩😬 forward thinking - nope promotion yes at the expense of anyone[/quote]
Completely agree. Some wouldn't have got through the first week of my last job.

Pay - again whilst it is well paid, if I did the same job in the private sector, I'd be on treble what I earn.

I hear this all the time from Civil Servants in several different departments but honestly believe they are deluded and have no idea what a private sector role demands or any realistic notion of what their value is in the private sector job market! You have to deliver and be seen to deliver and earn your pay. That doesn't seem to be the case in many public sector office. And there are the other benefits....

There is no way that someone with a mild ailment in the private sector could regularly take 6 months off on sick leave on full pay without being on some sort of capacity pathway. It's tiresome hearing from the civil servants I work with that they have to carry over so many holidays because they use flexitime for their time off. It wouldn't be tolerated to get to the end of the year and find that half the budget had to be spent on a project - any project - by year end.

I'm lucky - I love my job and don't see myself ever retiring. I have no grudge against my CS friends. I would have hated to stick to a job I hated for the sake of a pension. That seems to be the main reason most stay in post.

I imagine it would be tedious but decently paid.

@Cazziebo

Pay - again whilst it is well paid, if I did the same job in the private sector, I'd be on treble what I earn.

I hear this all the time from Civil Servants in several different departments but honestly believe they are deluded and have no idea what a private sector role demands or any realistic notion of what their value is in the private sector job market! You have to deliver and be seen to deliver and earn your pay. That doesn't seem to be the case in many public sector office. And there are the other benefits....

There is no way that someone with a mild ailment in the private sector could regularly take 6 months off on sick leave on full pay without being on some sort of capacity pathway. It's tiresome hearing from the civil servants I work with that they have to carry over so many holidays because they use flexitime for their time off. It wouldn't be tolerated to get to the end of the year and find that half the budget had to be spent on a project - any project - by year end.

I'm lucky - I love my job and don't see myself ever retiring. I have no grudge against my CS friends. I would have hated to stick to a job I hated for the sake of a pension. That seems to be the main reason most stay in post.

It's not being deluded. I work in CS, my husband is private sector. He's seen civil service jobs advertising in his line of work and he thinks they could offer interesting work. Then he looks at the pay and says "absolutely not". He earns considerably more money in the private sector than he would in civil service.

Current civil servant, around 15 years in total, but with a couple of years out in the middle to work in the private sector (after which I very much wanted to come back, so I did).

Agree with much of what has been said re the benefits, which are fairly universal. The comments on negatives I think are quite dependent on where you work - ie levels of bureaucracy, micromanagement.

The one thing not mentioned much is how interesting the work can be - you get to work on issues that could change the lives of everyone in the country, and are really important - Not all the time, of course, but I’ve worked on a couple of things I could genuinely point to as that. And you get an inside view of a lot of politics, which can be really fascinating.

Having no public political opinions can be a bit challenging (no fun tweets!). And the hours can be brutal, for pretty low pay compared to private sector equivalent roles. I was boiling with rage over all the “workshy civil servants” bollocks in the press at the weekend.

I’m dead proud of being a civil servant, and of the lovely and dedicated people I work with.

Some referred shame at the moment. In general masses of responsibility at higher levels for very poor pay compared to private sector, but the trade off is doing something interesting that you care about, making a difference and never dreading going to work. It depends very much on flavour of government, but can’t think of any other career where I’d have had the variety, opportunities, development and experiences I’ve had.

Pros:

• very flexible working (I couldn't ask for better
• well paid
• good job security (for me at least)
• easy to move about once you're ‘in’ (I've worked in lots of different roles and departments)

Cons:

• depending on your manager and departmental budget, training opportunities are very hit and miss
• you reach a ceiling pay wise and if you're not interested in management roles, then it can be limiting
• it can be crazy frustrating. There's always waaay too many people involved in any decisions, so it takes ages to get the simplest things signed off
• departments are rubbish at sharing information and so it's common to be working on a project, only to find out half way that another section / department is doing almost the same project and you both had no idea!

I've been in a number of policy roles in CS, just below SCS level. The work is varied, interesting and always very diverse both in workforce and outlook. I meet regularly with Ministers and have forged some fantastic working relationships, which goes along way. Pay isn't as good as private sector but it's not terrible either. I enjoy cultivating my teams and watch them blossom, even when I was hospitalised they stepped up and were amazing. I've been fortunate going from HEO to G6 in three years, but I grab opportunities as and when I see them.

I love it. The flexibility is amazing when you have small children.

@Aria2015 - I forgot about the massively siloed working! Often at a meeting with external partners and I find out they are also working with colleagues on a project I know nothing about

Civil service covers SO many jobs roles, situations and areas that everyone will have a completely different experience.

Friend lives on the Sth Coast and has to go into an office, gets average pay and hates the role. His is a government role but I'm not even sure what he does exactly.

I moved from 20yrs in healthcare to a civil service job last year. Mine is only a short contract, so I don't know of any full time 'perks'. Its completely WFH and in our small team, its only myself and 1 other working FT- everyone else is part time to work around child care or other jobs. Its incredibly flexible though and the best job I've ever had!

A colleague in a neighbouring team, doing almost the same job as me, but working under a different boss has a nightmare. They are severely understaffed, no clarity on their roles and it changes constantly.

OP- what are are you looking at working in?

@dorkfink

The civil service was where I discovered that there are people sitting behind desks purely counting down the days until they get to retire.

we dubbed them lifers 😆

That's why I never went back after first baby, it's soul destroying, the ineffective management,.

Here goes, pros, excellent employer pension contributions, certain amount of flexibility
Cons, very poorly paid considering what we do on a daily basis.
I work for the DWP on a benefit enquiry line, mostly customers are ok, the problems are to do with the sheer level of desperation out there. At least two or three times a week we have suicidal customers, one poor soul last week was on the line (not to me) for four and a half hours.
We have very little training to deal with this, we just to carry on and hope to say the right thing.
We help people with payments, speak to the relatives of the deceased, try and sort out the trouble that customers get into due to their struggles with their mental health.
Despite our bad reputation, we try our absolute best, and the vast majority of us are kind and compassionate, and take some calls away with us.
All this and more for less than twenty one and a half grand, I've been here three years.
I was looking at a wage slip from 4 years ago, I was in the private sector and taking home 150 more every month, for a much easier job.
And I got free tea!!
Yes I am afraid I am one of those waiting for retirement, but working my guts out until then, my job is more like working in a call centre than a sumptous Whitehall office,
Rant over

I worked in the CS for 19 years.

Initially I found it interesting and stimulating. I stayed for the fantastic family friendly conditions like flexi time and term time which was invaluable when my children were young.

I left as I became bored and didn’t want to spend the next 20 years wondering what if.

My pension is final salary and I get it when I am 60.

@DracarysThis how did you move up so quickly? Any advice/tips? (I'm currently HEO, probation ends next month, loving it and keen to progress to leadership).

[quote damelarue]@minou123 HMRC? 😂[/quote]
Ha ha ha ha

Does it take one to know one?
Shall we have a secret hand signal?

Have to disagree with some of the comments about sick leave, I had 10 weeks off last year, my depression got completely out of hand. The Occupational Health assessments and meetings with managers exacerbated my depression, to the point where I returned 3 weeks early from sick leave in the hope I wouldn't be sacked. I had been there over 2 years by this point.
I believe that if I had not declared depression as a existing condition I would have out of the door without a second thought

My Best Friend works for CS. Very old fashion policies and expectations. If you’re happy in your current job, don't change. The grass wasn't greener for her!

@PissedOffNeighbour22 no training no training !!! How is that even possible oh my god 8 weeks of training and it was so so so bad and had no relevance to the job !!!! You couldn’t make it up most days I’m feeling like Alice in wonderland and not in a good way 😬 @Stigsmother yep no training again for really complex situations I’ve had suicidal people face to face desperate people county line 16 year old sex working 16 year old and so it goes on luckily my previous boss was awesome and I really really respected her this one is a nice person but a micro manager and wants results. Last week we had two meetings about what change we wanted to see I said nothing will ever change it’s tick box exercise radio silence ensued with a bit of tumbleweed lol what about the people survey another pointless exercise we were all encouraged to fill in a piece of paper for a survey the whole dwp the results were so skewed you wd of thought it was a government paper 😂😂😂😂

@ConsuelaHammock

No idea what the job entails but the department of agriculture in NI employs approx 3 pencil pushers for every farmer. I’m guessing they don’t do an awful lot.

Cons putting up with shit like this. DAERA which covers environment and rural affairs had 2,992 staff in 2019. In the same year there 30,813 farmers plus a further 11,910 farmworkers. Even on the smaller number that is more than 10 to 1. Lots of the department won't be even be working on agriculture. Food, marine, waste, pollution, Brexit... Sources Farm labour statistics in Northern Ireland www.daera-ni.gov.uk/publications/farm-labour-statistics-northern-ireland www.nisra.gov.uk/system/files/statistics/Employment-In-The-NICS-April-2019-Report.pdf