Goodwill at work: part of the job? Or poor management?

[workwoes123]

I just read an article by a GP about how awful things are in the NHS / general practice in the UK atm. One of the things she said was "We’re doing this for the patients, not for the government. That’s how the NHS runs. It’s on the goodwill of people. Primary care will always deliver.".

I'm from a teaching family (grandmother, mother, husband all teachers) and they basically say the same about teaching: it's frequently crap, but if you don't do it even when it's really crap, it's the children that suffer and they can't live with that.

In my current workplace (which is a school but not in the UK) our HR manager is on a mission to stamp out the need for 'goodwill'. In her opinion, if we are relying on 'goodwill' to get things done - to meet our obligations / do our jobs / function in a proper way - then it's indicative of a failure of management. That might be a failure to set the expectations of our 'customers' appropriately, it might be a failure to properly assess and distribute workloads - but whatever it is, it's a sign of failure. Of course she's on a total collision course with our Anglo teachers, for whom going above and beyond for the sake of the kids, it part and parcel of the job and a sign of their professionalism and dedication.

So what do you think? Should 'goodwill' be part of a job? Or should workplaces be managed such that employees can do what they are required to do, and no more?

YABU - goodwill is just part and parcel of many jobs
YANBU - relying on 'goodwill' to get things done is a sign that management is failing to do its job properly

YANBU - current job (I am leaving) demands we constantly pull out all the stops just because management make daft decisions without asking anyone who does the work and refuses to employ enough staff. Fuck to that.

My current position absolutely relies on goodwill. And we’re taught it, in a way, for the benefit of our customers.

But it’s when goodwill becomes a norm, that it becomes untenable and that’s where the failure of management comes in.

Relying on goodwill should not be the norm.. where do you go then when a crisis occurs?

Normalised goodwill also leads to favouritism - I'll just do this for that child/family as they need x but not doing the same for another child... etc

I think occasional goodwill is something necessary (today we have a big unexpected problem; please can you stay late to fix it). If it becomes more than occasional, then it becomes an unwritten part of the job i.e. poor management.

I also think goodwill, even on the occasional ad-hoc scale should be appreciated by management and not just "expected".

I think that goodwill should be a 'nice to do' sort of thing where its an occasional, really above and beyond thing. It should absolutely not be an every day activity as you should be resourced for the needs of the business/organisation and not relying on people to do extra all the time

I left a role in the charity sector as when I worked out my hours it was probably minimum wage and I was working at a senior manager level - smallish charity so not mega bucks, but for some industries they assume you have a richer partner who supports you, or that your passion for the cause or industry area means you’ll do it and all the hours with no resources and poor pay. In that case I’m with your HR Manager, it’s a management failure!

Regarding NHS and those involved in frontline delivery I empathise more because the decisions you take impact at an individual and direct level. But that goes back to the old chestnut of funding public services properly and managing pipeline of skilled workers (I.e. teachers and healthcare professionals) so again.. it’s a management failure.

I think relying on good will is a failure of funding.

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

YANBU - current job (I am leaving) demands we constantly pull out all the stops just because management make daft decisions without asking anyone who does the work and refuses to employ enough staff. Fuck to that.

Management need to give staff the resources to be able to adequately do their job. Goodwill will see you through a short-term crisis, but it shouldn't be relied on for the normal running of the business/service.

A friend of mine who is a teacher was complaining about her new TA, who doesn't come in early or stay late or work through her lunch break.
I checked and the new TA just works her paid hours and no more. But the rest of the TAs tend to put in around 90 mins of unpaid work per day. I think this is an unreasonable expectation!

yanbu

'goodwill' might be needed to get over an unusual situation - but that should be re-imbursed either monetary or toil.

'goodwill' should never be expected and indeed sign of inadequate management.

I think you need goodwill for when things are outside of the norm. People need to be flexible and understanding with their managers and employers and in return they should be able to expect the same back if something unexpected comes up for them.

E.g I need to stay late at work because of a crisis and I do it to help out. Likewise, I need to leave work for an emergency at home.

This breaks down in environment where a crisis is always happening and is avoidable and there is no flexibility given back to the employee. The NHS and teaching are two examples if this where employees have very little additional flexibility (above and beyond their contracts) and the employer gets a lot extra out of the employee through goodwill.

To be clear when I sat avoidable I mean at a structural level - ie it’s down to lack of funding etc

When I was working in the NHS, my jobshare partner and I were on a campaign to stamp out relying on goodwill. Services should be properly funded and controlled but its also a minefield....there are people who use "goodwill" to provide services that they should not be providing and aren't properly set up like (true story) a community physiotherapist doing fish and chip shop runs for elderly people instead of providing the physio services they were paid to do.

@Kickers567

A friend of mine who is a teacher was complaining about her new TA, who doesn't come in early or stay late or work through her lunch break. I checked and the new TA just works her paid hours and no more. But the rest of the TAs tend to put in around 90 mins of unpaid work per day. I think this is an unreasonable expectation!

yup.....working for nothing is seen as the norm :( If you ask someone if they would give back a lump of their paycheque every month, you get told hell no, but effectively "goodwill working" is doing just that.

The NHS would completely collapse without the goodwill of its staff. There is absolutely no question, if staff started going home on time and taking their allocated breaks, not doing extra shifts due to staff shortages, it wouldn’t last a month. These things have become so normalised. It’s normal to not use the loo and hold it for hours on end as you’re too busy.

It's hard to stamp out expectations of goodwill in senior managers when they had to do it themselves. It's the Grandpa Simpson "When I was your age I had to walk 15 miles! In the snow! With no shoes!" thing.

Many public services rely on goodwill because they're not properly funded. Councils, for example, have had 10 years of cuts and have now been hit further by Covid.
Many vital front-facing services for vulnerable people now rely on goodwill to get them delivered.
No it's not right, but if people keep voting the Tories in then this is what you get. It's not a failure of management (at least not in my part of the system), it's a failure of funding.

This breaks down in environment where a crisis is always happening and is avoidable and there is no flexibility given back to the employee. The NHS and teaching are two examples if this where employees have very little additional flexibility (above and beyond their contracts) and the employer gets a lot extra out of the employee through goodwill.

Agreed. Maybe because most of my family work in these two sectors I am surrounded by 'for the good of the kids / patients' type people!

DH is a teacher and I have to say his goodwill is running pretty thin, as he is expected 'for the good of the kids' to neglect his own well-being constantly. And yes, once you start relying on goodwill it becomes a very uneven playing field with the more assertive staff simply refusing to take on the work that falls under the 'goodwill' heading while the others take on more and more extra, which is never recorded, never acknowledged except verbally.

I wish that all women would stop doing unpaid overtime. You see it all over mn "its part of the job". Well if its part of the job then you should be paid. I say women because I know men do it too, but its usually the caring professions which are female dominated.

Its also quite rare that the goodwill works the other way round.

IMHO Goodwill should be a temporary stop gap situation at the most or in unusual circumstances.

I.E when we've had high levels of absence in the workplace, some of us have worked exceptionally long hours to cover gaps or provide out of hours services. Once identified the appropriate resources or funding should be put in place to recompense those affected. Someone stays late to cover for a colleague who needs to leave for a dental appointment, this is then reciprocated. Those are goodwill situations.

Working an extra 90 minutes every single day? That's not goodwill, that's accepting a lower hourly wage without complaint because you're under resourced. If your role cannot be undertaken effectively without an additional 90 minutes of work every day, then it's a really poor manager that allows that to carry on without thought for the wellbeing of their employees.

I am currently taking on more workload than is consistent with my hours (we have a workload spreadsheet so this is transparent to everyone). I don't mind too much - it's for unavoidable reasons, my manager is grateful and I love my job.

I do agree that it ends up with some staff taking up the slack while others just don't.

@Scrunchies

The NHS would completely collapse without the goodwill of its staff. There is absolutely no question, if staff started going home on time and taking their allocated breaks, not doing extra shifts due to staff shortages, it wouldn’t last a month. These things have become so normalised. It’s normal to not use the loo and hold it for hours on end as you’re too busy.

This is so so true. Nurses and midwives can't strike. But if they just worked to rule (even before COVID-19) the system would bloody collapse!

Goodwill should only be required occasionally for unforeseen circumstances. Relying on it daily means it just becomes the expectation rather than the rule. The more people give the more is taken. It's a shitty way to run things.

Yeah it is always the highly paid who expect the lower paid to do it "for the children!"
It is an absolute disgrace and even worse in the US where in many states teachers are providing basic items that they fund out of their meagre and taxed salaries.

So what do you think? Should 'goodwill' be part of a job? Or should workplaces be managed such that employees can do what they are required to do, and no more?

It should not be part of the job and I no longer go "above and beyond", unless I am paid extra to do it.

I've also said to my team that they should not feel pressured into going above and beyond. Anything they are asked to do outside of working hours, they should be paid for.

Good will should be about going above and beyond and being recognised for doing so. Unfortunately in a lot of jobs it's expected as part of the norm.