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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Who is being unreasonable?

28 replies

WeirdlyKind · 25/01/2022 01:47

Boss wants me on a training course. It starts at 9am in a venue that's at least 2:45 hours* away from me. It's a hotel and I've asked if the company (who can more than afford it!) will pay for me a hotel room. Boss has said no, and to just drive there and back on the day but I'm genuinely not comfortable with that as it means at least five hours of driving, on top of a very full on course.

(*I've done the trip a couple of times, and the last time it took closer to four hours because the traffic was so bad. It's around 150miles, from Peterlee to Liverpool)

Thinking of paying for a room myself, just to avoid the stress of getting there on the morning! Public transport isn't the best option unfortunately, due to my mobility needs.

OP posts:
RobertSmithsLipstick · 25/01/2022 01:50

I think I'd pay to stay somewhere myself, but bloody hell, that's a hell of a drive to expect you to do.

Original poster
WeirdlyKind · 25/01/2022 01:56

It's ridiculous. Boss has form for being demanding, unfortunately! Good thing I love the job, isn't it? 🙈😂

What's making it worse is if I get there late due to an accident or whatever, they won't let me in the course. So it'd be a lot of stress and expense for no reason!

OP posts:
HappyAsASandboy · 25/01/2022 01:56

Your employer should absolutely pay fir a hotel (though not necessarily the one the course is in if it is too expensive!)

That much driving on top of a working day is too much to be safe.

RobertSmithsLipstick · 25/01/2022 02:03

Have a look on the ACAS website, or phone them.
I found them excellent when my company introduced split shifts.
1 minute to explain the issue and they were able to tell me the law immediately.

Wingedharpy · 25/01/2022 02:03

I would definitely stay overnight the night before course as I'm unable to get up in the morning! - probably because I'm here M'netting at silly o'clock.
Could you go back to boss and negotiate half and half ie. company pays half and you pay half hotel bill?
They want you to attend the course but you'd like to make it there and back, alive, not unreasonably!
If you have mobility needs, wouldn't this be considered a "reasonable adjustment"?

GreenFingersWouldBeHandy · 25/01/2022 02:04

Do you have an HR department? This is ridiculous and putting your safety at risk. What if you fall asleep driving home?

You need to tell him you won't be attending the course unless he pays for you to stay over the night before.

RobertSmithsLipstick · 25/01/2022 02:10

There is also the issue of the rest period between working hours.
If you're expected to work the next day, will you have had the appropriate and safe rest?
With our proposed split shifts we wouldn't have done, so the whole company had to rethink their shitty treatment of staff.

Most satisfying!

Wingedharpy · 25/01/2022 02:11

Just looked at the map OP.
That's an awful journey to expect someone to do, there and back, in a day.
As you say, it's not only the number of miles, but also the route you have to do and the time of day (middle of the night meets rush hour!) you'll be doing it.
Unreasonable of your Boss IMHO.

Fizzorgin · 25/01/2022 02:55

As a manager & H&S specialist I'd be pretty much insisting you stayed in a hotel tbh

Shamoo · 25/01/2022 03:05

Oh they should totally pay. Health and safety dictates that they can’t safely ask you to make that drive either side of a course like that. Your boss is being a dick.

Topseyt · 25/01/2022 03:11

Tell him that you will be unable to go on the course unless you can have a hotel room because it is too far to drive there and back in a day.

timeisnotaline · 25/01/2022 04:23

I’d go back and say you may not have realised that it’s 5 hours of driving, last time I did this… if I get thrre late I’m not allowed in, and if I get up at 3 to get there I don’t think I’m safe to drive for hours or would get the best out of the course either, so if I can’t stay the night before hand I actually don’t think it’s worth doing the course. It would be easier to fly to Paris for a conference the same day than drive to this one.

ElftonWednesday · 25/01/2022 04:34

Tell him/her to pay for a hotel or you won't go.

Original poster
WeirdlyKind · 25/01/2022 11:11

Thanks! I'm off today but will speak to him again tomorrow, then escalate to HR if needed. It's a massive company and they can more than afford the cost!

OP posts:
2022success · 25/01/2022 11:18

Honestly I would take this further, via HR if necessary as it's a H&S issue.

IncompleteSenten · 25/01/2022 11:21

Is there any law on being paid for travelling time?

billy1966 · 25/01/2022 11:29

Establish your legal rights from ACAS.

Create a paper trail detailing EXACTLY what is being asked of you, his refusal to allow you to stay over, and crucially your fears from a health and safety aspect.

Let them get back to you confirming they want you to put your safety at risk.

Flowers
BarbaraofSeville · 25/01/2022 11:56

Your boss is unreasonable, the traffic on that journey will likely be horrendous around Manchester or on the M60 and you need to allow time to park the car, register, use the toilet and generally get yourself ready to start in time for 9 am.

You'd need to plan to arrive at 8.30 to 8.45 at the latest depending on where the car park is, to not be late and the journey is likely to be more like around 4 hours, as a lot of it will be at rush hour.

Plus you'll be more tired, possibly dangerously so, for the return journey after such an early start.

If you work for a large company, your employer should have some sort of business travel policy, is this issue covered in this?

Your boss is very short sighted, as well as this being a health and safety issue, you're at risk of missing some of the course due to being late.

When we used to run in office courses, we always had latecomers who had tried to do what is normally a 1 to 2 hour journey but had experienced above average rush hour delays.

BarbaraofSeville · 25/01/2022 11:59

On the M6 that is - Google is suggesting you go down to Leeds and across the M62 (shudder!) or across further north (The A66 in the dark and potentially bad weather and there was night time roadworks on it when I used it recently) and down the M6.

I'd be surprised if you did it in much under 4 hours, which means you need to be on the road at 5 am, and you could still be late.

Sausagedogsarethebest · 25/01/2022 15:18

No way. You'll have to allow at least 3.5hrs to get there on time, get parked and be ready to start at 9am, maybe 4hrs. Then you've got your getting up/showered/ready time on top of that. No way would I be getting up in the middle of the night for that. I'd be asleep half way through the course. Then you've got to be alert for the trip back again.

Natty13 · 25/01/2022 15:28

I have been in this situation and said to my boss:

  1. I will leave at 6am. I usually leave for work at 8.30 so will be claiming that extra travel time back, plus any time later home I am (I got a copy of the HR policy regarding travel)
  2. I will leave at 6am and no earlier because of safety (not driving tired). If I arrive late because of traffic I won't be let in and you'll have wasted the money and I still won't be trained on this. There is often bad traffic on that route
  3. If I do get there on time, I will be exhausted and stressed and won't be able to get the most out of the training.

Thry booked me a hotel.

AryaStarkWolf · 25/01/2022 15:33

Your boss should absolutely pay for a hotel room, that's a crazy amount of driving to expect a person to do on top of a whole days training

HollowTalk · 25/01/2022 15:38

That's terrible - I'm sure if he went on a course like that he'd stay over. You should definitely be able to stay the night before as you'd be working (driving) from 5 am.

ElectraBlue · 25/01/2022 15:38

If you have mobility needs due to a health condition or disability, you have the right to request reasonable adjustments. In this case the fact that you cannot physically and safely drive for 5 hours in the same day.

Email your manager copying HR and state the above. Tell them that the only way you can attend this is if a room is booked for you.

Your boss is not being unreasonable but they should also realise they are skating on thin ice if they push someone who has a health issues to do something like this. Very silly indeed.

ElectraBlue · 25/01/2022 15:39

Sorry the above should read 'your boss is not only being unreasonable but they should also realise'...