I don't think I should pay for this...AIBU?

[Wenjie]

DD is at a university in the United States getting a four year degree in Art & Design: Games and Playable Media. She just found out she almost has enough credits to get a two year degree in Business Administration. It would be around 800 USD, which converts to about 590 GBP. She doesn't think that's much, but I don't even know that employers would care about a two year degree. I know this might not be the right place to post something about schools in the states, but it's caused friction. Am I being too unaccommodating?

I would def pay for it IN ADDITION to her 4 yr degree if you can. It sounds like she knows what she wants to do with her major and actually if she is in that comms role being business savvy and able to talk to those on the business side as well as the creative/programmer side will be a major plus.

Even if she goes her own way and a different industry business skills are very transferable

I’d pay it.

@rookiemere

Wow so £590 is "peanuts" and a "drop in the ocean" etc. etc. , maybe this is the attitude OP is getting from her DD. A net sum of £590 still requires someone to earn about £1000 gross, it's definitely not nothing.

For someone who can afford to pay £55,500 for their child’s education, it’s not much. It’s all relative

Seems strange to me that you would have an issue over such a small amount when you are already paying such a huge amount

It would be a useful course for her to do. If you are already paying so much, I am surprised you don't want to pay a bit extra.

I did some searching on the OP, and I don't think they're minted by any stretch of the imagination. I suspect if the £580 was an easy find, she wouldn't be posting here to ask if it's worth spending.

[quote Wenjie]@BakedTattie Her four year degree is already costing us £55,500 by the time it's done, so it feels like a lot to add £590 for something that might not be valued when she's searching for work.[/quote]
tell her FatDonalds is hiring...

it will be valued -she can pay for it

Thanks dreamingbohemian I didn’t know that California had some free Community Colleges. I haven’t lived in the USA in a long time.

You would be crazy not to do this!

In the grand scheme of things you are looking at an extra 1% on top of the current spend for a whole extra degree that will definitely make a difference on her CV

Can it be this year's birthday/Christmas present?

Quite a few states in the US have programs that offer free community college tuition.

I didnt know really what to say this morning as 55k already spent is more money then I have ever had in my life, but as someone else has said about it, I feel emboldened.

I would pay the small amount for the extra, frankly because I think it would give her something to fall back on to perhaps work in HR or Admin in a games company. otherwise she needs to work more on learning programming languages and using them so she has work to show off. and I dont mean 1 group project as part of the course I mean off her own back showing enthusiasm stuff.

I googled the course the OP said and I found one I assume its THE one in america and the only thing it offered was Python the rest of the course seemed to be things like the history of games and the mechanics of games etc.

TBH I worked for a massive Dev/publisher who makes games for sony, nintendo and MS we didnt have people from specific "video games" uni or college courses, management didnt rate them they dont care that you have done a course about the history of games or game mechanics etc, they care that you leaned CAD, programming, web design etc in as many different languages as possible and that if you wanted to be an artist you had a portfolio, if you wanted to do SFX etc portfolio of work, wanted to program have a portfolio of work.

we had a guy who was a tester who went onto be a character artists for another company, he never went to higher education he just had a massive portfolio of his art and was amazingly good, he wanted to be a manga artist and had always loved drawing.

we had someone who went on to be a scriptwriter for games, they did fan fiction stuff and ended up doing a kickstarter campaign with a artist to release their own fantasy comic book series and did do a few volumes, got a writer job off the back of that having already been a tester for years at multiple companies.

You would be bonkers not to pay for it. People are at work for many many years. Your dd may change career direction in a couple of decades. Even if not, the degree will stand her in good stead for managerial roles and shows she is more of an all rounder, confident in business and so forth.

As for your desire that she does an internship in game production. Can she do this as well or in addition eg in her spare time?

We did have a tester then ended up a producer, TBH someone in management took a shine to that person and they had a degree in web development.

I dont think it was the degree alone that did it, TBH there was alot of brown nosing the right people and bedding your way up in that company.

@VelvetChairGirl

Art & Design: Games and Playable Media.

do you mean she wants to work in the games industry? if so she needs programming languages and lots of them, if she wants to be a character designer she needs a big portfollio of art and to be very very good and very fast at drawing.

she also wants to have no social life as she will be working long hours and weekends for shit pay and being an alcoholic helps because if your not one before you start work you soon will be

Wow, you are really selling it as a career. Are you speaking from experience?

You are paying 55k and quibbling over £600 for an extra qualification!
Maybe let her pay it back to you in her wages if she thinks it’s nothing ?
Curious ... why are you paying for a USA education that definitely won’t be looked at favourably over here ( or anywhere) ?

I was a tester for 5 years, I also did script editing on one game that wiped its face, which was considered a success at the time as on average only about 4 games a year were expected to turn a profit and they propped up the other games, I think the thing cost about 16mill to make.

being a tester is a minimum wage job, with long hours (6 to 7 day weeks during crunch time and shifts upto 48 hours long, yes thats right a single shift with a couple of lunch breaks lasting upto 48 hours).

@SenecaFallsRedux

Quite a few states in the US have programs that offer free community college tuition.

Just looked this up, it’s a program that has developed since I was in the USA and sounds like a very positive social improvement.

@MinestroneMini yes it's amazing isn't it

California community colleges are highly regarded as well I think

President Biden's wife, Dr Jill, teaches at a community college in Northern Virginia which is also very good

@ineedsun

Wow, that’s really different to the UK. So you can use your credits twice in the USA?

Is her paying an option?

No - you can in the uk too - so I have a BSC, but along the way I picked up one certificate and one diploma in two different, specific, disciplines - using the credits that finally counted towards my degree (but with no overlap between the lower awards). A certificate or diploma is often available part way through a degree as it's saying you have achieved that, lower, threshold of achievement.

@VelvetChairGirl Thank you so much for replying in such depth. It was really enlightening. You've given me a lot to think about.

My spouse is a game designer with about 20 years of experience, and is in charge of hiring for his large team. The Business Admin degree would be somewhat useful, because they have a lot of need for people with general production and management skills. It might even be more useful than the games degree; in my husband's experience classes for games degrees are taught by people who have failed in the industry and they do not hire from those programs. It does sound like she is design/production track rather than coding or art? If she wants coding, the best degree would be from the highest ranked CS program she can get into, avoiding any specialization. If she wants art, some gaming specialization might be okay, but it isn't as valuable as one might think. The degrees of designers are much more eclectic. Spouse's degree is in economics and philosophy. For new designers, he mainly looks for an obsessive level of interest with games, including board games, and ability to see complex projects through to completion.

I'd definitely fund this or at least loan her the money if I were you - I work as a data analyst and work with lots of programmers and data engineers and can tell you that whilst technical types are 10 a penny its much rarer to come across someone who is both technical and business-headed.

The business qualification (even though it is not a full degree) would set her apart from other candidates who don't have anything to prove that they understand wider company goals and vision and the importance of being able to communicate on a business level.

Furthermore, if she later decides to change career path, the business qualification may be useful to prove her competency in areas beyond art and design.

@Wenjie - have you decided to help her out with the funds for this extra qualification now?

@Thethuthinang

My spouse is a game designer with about 20 years of experience, and is in charge of hiring for his large team. The Business Admin degree would be somewhat useful, because they have a lot of need for people with general production and management skills. It might even be more useful than the games degree; in my husband's experience classes for games degrees are taught by people who have failed in the industry and they do not hire from those programs. It does sound like she is design/production track rather than coding or art? If she wants coding, the best degree would be from the highest ranked CS program she can get into, avoiding any specialization. If she wants art, some gaming specialization might be okay, but it isn't as valuable as one might think. The degrees of designers are much more eclectic. Spouse's degree is in economics and philosophy. For new designers, he mainly looks for an obsessive level of interest with games, including board games, and ability to see complex projects through to completion.

Agree with all of this. My husband is a computer games designer, he's lectured on games degree courses and regularly interviews for new hires in his company.

The games industry really doesn't value games degrees. They're generally taught by people who used to work in the industry, but are 3-5 years out of date (DH was unusual in doing it alongside a current job). DH would much prefer to see a CV with a good degree in a traditional subject from a good uni (DH did science), and a passion for gaming in their spare time - all types of gaming, incl board games.

Also, as Velvet says, once you get in the pay isn't great because so many people want to do it (I think programmers are an exception here - they do tend to be paid well). And at crunch time, you have to work very long hours.

In your DD's situation, I would pay for the business admin qualification.