What/how would you deal with this historic abuse?

[WinterGold]

When my adult DD was 9, a family moved in next door that on the surface and initially seemed very ordinary - although we subsequently found out that they were incredibly dysfunctional behind closed doors.

It’s long story, but they started off as friendly neighbours and were very keen to socialise all the time - actually too much! The mother was very eager to encourage a friendship between my DD and hers, who was 12 at the time. This child was very bossy and domineering and I had to speak to her on numerous occasions about her behaviour, particularly with my DS who was 2 at the time. Whenever she was in our house, DS always seemed to have accidents; falling off the bed, hitting his head etc. far more than usual. I could never put my finger on it, but she seemed a very ‘knowing’ child, if that makes sense? She knew the ‘right’ thing to say to adults and was very confident for her age.

The parents were very intense too and started to take over our lives. They were always coming around about something and we started getting sucked into their dramas. The husband regularly walked out, she would call the police and report him missing and tell them he was mentally vulnerable so they would get the helicopter and dogs out to look for him. I actually think she enjoyed the attention. In the end, I told her that I didn’t want to be involved in the scenarios any more as sometimes it was almost nightly. It didn’t end up well as we then had the police called on us as she accused my DH of threatening her - she refused to call her dogs off cornering our cat, so he had shouted, but never threatened her - and she reported me to my employers because I allegedly hadn’t been supervising children in my care. Both accusations were luckily proven to be unfounded. There were numerous other fictions reports made about us that I won’t go in to.

Many years later, my DD confided in me that the 12 YO had physically and sexually abused her whilst they were friends. Some of the stuff DD has told me was appalling and I feel dreadful that I was unaware and that this child had so much control over DD that she was too frightened to tell me.

Although DD is a well balanced and amazing adult, she still has flashbacks which continue to crush her. I want to give her the best advice and support but I also do not know if it is appropriate after all this time to report the abuse and what good would it do? I have no doubt the daughter was probably receiving the same treatment at the hands of her parents too so would this be opening another can of worms? The daughter still lives locally and has children of her own so that is another dilemma.

Sorry this is so long. It’s almost impossible to nutshell it.

@phishy

Definitely report it. You might be helping other children/people by coming forward.

I’m a bit nonplussed why you and your DH kept letting these people in your home, especially when you knew the 12yo was domineering and your 2 yo kept getting hurt.

TBH, the child originally just came across as super confident and a bit full on but very keen to please adults. Initially, we were on good terms with parents so I tolerated some of the behaviour but it soon wore thin. Outwardly, my DD wasn’t showing any sign of distress, so I had no idea what was going on because she was clearly hiding it very well.

This child was devious enough for me not to suspect that the first few incidents when DS got hurt were nothing but accidents. She would come running to me full of concern that * had fallen off the bed, or hit his head, or rolled down the stairs, slipped off the chair etc. I then started to see a direct connection with her visits and his injuries.

I see, thanks for explaining. I'm sorry that happened to you

In my experience the police would absolutely be interested.

But I would advise as a first step getting in touch with your local Sexual Assault Referral Centre. They may well be able to arrange counselling and can advise on the legal options without the pushiness I experienced with the police.

No advice for the OP but I hope people who read this thread take notice of what happened.

Sex attackers aren't all male. Sex attackers aren't all adults. Be very wary of people who are alone with your children, even it they are also children themselves. It's very possible your children's friends are abusing them physically and/or sexually. Being below the age of criminal responsibility does not mean being incapable of an "adult" crime.

[quote Nootkah]@aristotlesdeathray That is such poor advice from a safeguarding perspective. Post abuse therapy is a good suggestion, however.

Let's say the 12 year old was abused by her parents or other family members. Whether or not the 12 year old is charged, prosecuted or convicted or not re abuse againat the 9 year old, further investigation is likely. The OP stated that the then 12 year old still lives locally, and has children of her own... What about safeguarding those children? This investigation could potentially break the silence amd prevent further children from being abused.

@WinterGold In terms of reporting, if your dd is an adult now, what does she want to do? My advice would be to aupport her fully and without question in whatever she chooses to do.[/quote]
It could do that

But the odds are it won't

Reporting to the police and then that report going nowhere is very damaging for victims.

And on the most part that is what will happen, odds are the report will go no where, the investigation will be a surface one and nothing will be done. The victim will then be left having been retraumatised from the investigation and have even more shit to unpick in therapy.

Reporting isn't always a magic pill, in fact it's more often the opposite

As somebody who was abused as a child, and who has reported another victim of that abuser, who went on to abuse her own child (multiple times, and nothing was done, because she is manipulative, wouldn't engage and they won't investigate without her cooperation), I just want to add that it is traumatising to see nothing done when you report, BUT that the reason for nothing being done is usually because not enough reports have been made, or not enough people have raised their concerns, and I feel far, far more upset and let down by all of the people who witnessed reportable behaviour and ignored it, than I do with the social workers, who in fairness have little to work with when only one person has reported their concerns. Don't get me wrong, I think the law is far too in favour of keeping children with their abusive parents (partly because of the poor outcomes of children in care) and this upsets me too, but to not even report what you know was abuse is just as bad IMO.

I do not regret reporting despite the trauma it caused me, and would do it 100 times over if there was even a 0.000001% chance that it could protect another child.

Oh and to the OP - that is not to say I would judge your daughter for not reporting - as a victim herself I appreciate how hard that is, but to pressure someone not to report (as a pp has done) because the abuser was a victim, or the abuse is historic, is just despicable IMO.

@Persephone89 Thank you for your thoughts - and I’m truly sorry that have also been a victim of this same abominable crime.

DD has said to me on numerous occasions that one of her major fears is no one believing her. And this - now grown - woman sounds like your perpetrator - she is high profile locally, very credible and proudly advertises that she enjoys regularly popping out another “feral child” (whatever that is supposed to mean) Luckily, she never attended the same school as DD but a friend of DDs did and had ongoing issues with repeated bullying and intimidation from her. When a complaint was raised, the school shot it down as extremely unlikely and so out of character. This is how manipulative and devious she has always been. I was taken in by her for a while as she is very good at talking the talk.

This sort of thing constantly rips the scab off my DDs mental wounds. She copes for months at a time and then something unrelated or stressful happens and she’s revisiting the abuse. She sees the perpetrator confidently promoting herself surrounded by others who think she is some kind of wonderful, alternative lifestyle advocate.

Ironically, DD has achieved far more in both her professional and private life with a wonderful supportive fiancé (who knows all about this btw) so there is no envy, just a sense of injustice that this woman appears to have no conscience and carries on regardless. If that makes sense?

I just want to add that it is traumatising to see nothing done when you report, BUT that the reason for nothing being done is usually because not enough reports have been made, or not enough people have raised their concerns

This is a reason for someone who has been abused, especially if it was a long time ago, to go the SARC first. You may well be able to give your statement and have it recorded and kept in case other people come forward. It could help give a bigger picture even if you know your case on its own has little chance of success.

[quote WinterGold]@Persephone89 Thank you for your thoughts - and I’m truly sorry that have also been a victim of this same abominable crime.

DD has said to me on numerous occasions that one of her major fears is no one believing her. And this - now grown - woman sounds like your perpetrator - she is high profile locally, very credible and proudly advertises that she enjoys regularly popping out another “feral child” (whatever that is supposed to mean) Luckily, she never attended the same school as DD but a friend of DDs did and had ongoing issues with repeated bullying and intimidation from her. When a complaint was raised, the school shot it down as extremely unlikely and so out of character. This is how manipulative and devious she has always been. I was taken in by her for a while as she is very good at talking the talk.

This sort of thing constantly rips the scab off my DDs mental wounds. She copes for months at a time and then something unrelated or stressful happens and she’s revisiting the abuse. She sees the perpetrator confidently promoting herself surrounded by others who think she is some kind of wonderful, alternative lifestyle advocate.

Ironically, DD has achieved far more in both her professional and private life with a wonderful supportive fiancé (who knows all about this btw) so there is no envy, just a sense of injustice that this woman appears to have no conscience and carries on regardless. If that makes sense?[/quote]
So revenge would form part of the reason for reporting?

It's vanishingly unlikely for the police to do anything, feel free to report and have it on file incase there are other reports or incidents but you and your daughter need therapy. It's not healthy to be obsessed by this girl who was a child herself at the time.

@aristolesdeathray
Certainly not revenge - what a strange thing to suggest. Do you have no empathy at all? Would you be completely dispassionate and unaffected if one of your children told you about something vile that had happened to them when you thought they were safe? Bearing in mind most criminals are victims of their circumstances, does that automatically excuse abhorrent behaviour? Isn’t justice a form of revenge anyway?

I’m not in her head, but I believe my daughter struggles to reconcile her own distress whilst seeing the cause of it apparently unaffected. I don’t think for a minute she wants to see this woman on trial, I think she just wants to feel empowered, not controlled by emotions about her. It may be that counselling is the way forward - but that’s up to her to decide.

[quote WinterGold]@aristolesdeathray
Certainly not revenge - what a strange thing to suggest. Do you have no empathy at all? Would you be completely dispassionate and unaffected if one of your children told you about something vile that had happened to them when you thought they were safe? Bearing in mind most criminals are victims of their circumstances, does that automatically excuse abhorrent behaviour? Isn’t justice a form of revenge anyway?

I’m not in her head, but I believe my daughter struggles to reconcile her own distress whilst seeing the cause of it apparently unaffected. I don’t think for a minute she wants to see this woman on trial, I think she just wants to feel empowered, not controlled by emotions about her. It may be that counselling is the way forward - but that’s up to her to decide.[/quote]
You don't need to explain yourself to that poster. I hope your DD will be able to heal, it certainly sounds like she's making a great life for herself in spite of the trauma she has suffered.