To resign because my job suddenly requires me in 3 days a week?

[Earlyflash]

We got told on Friday that we would be required to do a minimum of three days a week in the office from monday.

I’m new at the company (4 months) and this was never mentioned in the recruitment phase. That said I didn’t push them for a written answer.

Given we’ve spent the last two years working 100% at home, this seems like a massive overreach, and I’m intending to tell them to do one.

It’s going to have such an impact on me, my partner, and my children (from previous relationship).

I already have interviews for fully remote roles.

So, AIBU for reacting to such a request?

However someone in Hull or Blackpool may agree to do the job for much less.

I live very near to one of those towns and I can assure you my salary is not based on my mortgage but the value of my skills and experience. So I would not agree to do a job for "much less" just because I may pay slightly less for living costs than someone in Sevenoaks

Before covid many did wfh but many companies stipulated that childcare should be in place, what has happened to that. DH often wfh but he would not have been able to if he was looking after children.

@ontana tbf I don't think that's representative of most. But I hope she's ok, I like the hybrid approach for me.

If you can afford it and you're confident that you can get another job wfh 100% then resign but I think that 3 out of 5 days in the office is already quite flexible.

What if you could tweak it to 2 days out of 5 in the office? You might as well ASK them to tweak it slightly before resigning.

It is a perfectly reasonable request from your company. The Covid wfh rules were to help stop the spread of Covid not to suit the needs of employees.

Oh - and this is a very interesting tribunal judgement about a woman who successfully claimed constructive dismissal and indirect sex discrimination when her employer required her back in the office 1 week out of seven.

Not much help to the OP who doesn't have the length of service but very interesting

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/6137479ed3bf7f05b694d5ec/Ms_N_Bryan_v_Landmarc_Support_Services_Limited__Landmarc__2502158-20_Judgment.pdf

@monfuseds

I'll repeat - your childcare arrangements are your problem, not your employers.

I don't think anyone disagrees with that. The point was commuting to work will involve different childcare needs vs no commute c

And people should have this considered before taking a new job! "What if I have go to into the office, is my childcare arrangement still workable?" Unless people have a specific remote working contract then anyone should be expected to be able to be in their place of work, even at very short notice. This isn't the employers responsibility if you have only factored in a 5 minute commute from home to nursery instead of the 45 mins from office to nursery.

They're not unreasonable to say you have to go back to work. I think a lot of wfh people need to realise it's not forever and that at some point they'll to sort out childcare, petcare, household chores etc as they will be going back at some point.

Let's hope you are good at your job and have been putting in the hours rather than getting distracted with childcare - they might be quite glad to see the slackers go.

1 working day is too short notice.

It shows a lack of value for the employees, I'm not sure why so many think it's ok.

@Luredbyapomegranate

No one’s being unreasonable. They are entitled to want you in, you are entitled to find an alternative.

Exactly. Best of luck with the job search OP.

Don't people need childcare whether you wfh or not?

People make different childcare arrangements depending when and where they are working. You're not going to book your child into a workplace nursery 5 miles from home if you don't go to the office to work. And whatever arrangements you have made you can't usually change them at zero notice.

Up to you if you want to move

But they can do this if not in contract

Unless people have a specific remote working contract then anyone should be expected to be able to be in their place of work, even at very short notice.

Why do you think that's normal? I'm already hybrid but DHs work are phasing hybrid in from March so people have time to adjust. That's normal.

Resign immediately. If you can't bear to work in an office ever you need to leave so someone who can work in an office can have the job.

@monfuseds

Unless people have a specific remote working contract then anyone should be expected to be able to be in their place of work, even at very short notice.

Why do you think that's normal? I'm already hybrid but DHs work are phasing hybrid in from March so people have time to adjust. That's normal.

That’s not normal for here.

When the policy changes so do the work arrangements

You're not going to book your child into a workplace nursery 5 miles from home if you don't go to the office to work.

apparently you should do this & pay for it months on end just in case your employer decides differently on a whim 😆. meanwhile in the real world... it also ignores the fact the schools were not necessarily offering wrap around care as normal.

@converseandjeans

Don't people need childcare whether you wfh or not?

This 🖕🏻🖕🏻

YANBU to leave a job which doesn't suit you. But I don't know if wfh all week is what will happen going forward.

The danger of jobs becoming completely remote is that they can be done by anyone anywhere, So someone who lives in the SE expects a decent salary to pay for an expensive mortgage. However someone in Hull or Blackpool may agree to do the job for much less.

Then of course the jobs can be outsourced to cheaper countries like Poland/India.

There's a danger that going forward these jobs may not be available and if they are then on a reduced salary.

This is true even if some people are offended by it.

It's smart to keep your finger in at least 2 days a week.

I'm not in the UK but it's been beneficial to my employers that I live near my office. I wouldn't want to shoot myself in the foot by lumping myself in with the employees resisting a return to the office. I've been there all along. Not looking for a medal for that but this is why it's better for employers to employ people who live near enough that they won't resist being asked to work from the office part of the week.

If employers aren't put in a position where this is obvious to them, then why wouldn't they hire people who live in Hull (presuming this is a cheaper place to live)

Seriously, employers do call the shots. You get paid to do what they tell you to do. If your boss wants you in the office, guess what, you show up at an office. And get on with your work. So many people have got used to a WFH scenario they’ve forgotten what it means to be employed. If you don’t like it, you’re a free agent. You can look for an alternative situation.

@monfuseds

1 working day is too short notice.

It shows a lack of value for the employees, I'm not sure why so many think it's ok.

Yep. DH company has a clear policy on that. People are currently wfh as per government advice. They will give 4 weeks notice of there is any change in the working pattern.

This is for a complaint where everyone is living relativement locally, aka not london commute

I was recruited and told in the recruitment phase that work from home was fine but once pandemic was over they would want us in 1-2 days a week. I started and then the email comes out saying at least 2-3. I just spoke to my boss and said I wasn't willing to come in more than once a week as it didn't work for me. She was fine about it.

The sad reality is that this will mostly effect working women. I think from home we had more of an even shot of getting promoted and being judged on our merits rather than who needlessly stays in the office the longest or comes in earliest.

Because they frequently said they didn't have access to all the systems when they were wfh because of security reasons, their internet was frequently down. I had conversations with children screaming in the background so loudly I couldn't hear the person speak

So the problem was with poor workplace set up and schools/nurseries being closed rather than their physical location?

I ask because I was told twice that customer service limitations were due WFH when I could clearly hear the rest of the call centre in the background. One admitted they were told to say this.

Call centre staff pre pandemic were increasingly being staffed from remote locations because it keeps headline costs down (much like offshoring customer support looks cheaper) but without school closures you wouldn't hear the background noise..

Across my own teams (not CS) the largest problems of attendance/availability where were they were in critical sectors and had to be onsite to work - it was a constant battle of illness levels, isolation requirements and school/nursery closures. Those working from home had less illness and more scope to work around childcare problems.

Flexible working isn't going away any time soon because it was already here. It cuts business costs.

I don’t blame you if you’ve managed to wfh without issue so far. I don’t understand the fixation of having to travel to an office to then do work which you could have done at home. It implies a lack of trust on the staff who work at the company. My work place has found that since people have been wfh 100% of the time there has been a big increase in productivity. And yet now Boris is scrapping all the restrictions (in some desperate attempt at salvaging his position as PM) suddenly it means there’s no risk and we are being told we are expected to work some time in the office. Why??? It seems like a backwards step. You’d think with soaring energy prices companies would see it as a bonus if staff could wfh. So the only reason I can think of is there being a lack of trust in the staff. Surely it would be apparent that they are not doing their job properly at home if their output isn’t up to standard. If I were you I would definitely look for something else and tell them when you leave the reason why.

Of course you're not BU to look for something which suits you better; I'd say the same whatever the issue was. However if WFH is so important to you, do make sure it's bolted down in any new contract as the same could easily happen somewhere else

As ever there can be a difference between what employees want to do and what works for the employer, and the arrangements we've had throughout Covid were always likely to be temporary