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Original poster

Means testing State Pension

731 replies

CuriousMariette · 22/01/2022 18:25

Do you think the time has come for this to be introduced? I don’t think the current system is sustainable as many people are living too long. I know it’s not fair and would be political suicide but Pensioner’s didn’t even suffer a 80% furlough during lockdowns. I say this from a place of having “paid in” as people say for 30 years plus already and would likely not receive a State Pension in this scenario.

OP posts:
JustBkind · 22/01/2022 20:33

No, state pension MUST stay. The majority of people have worked bloody hard for it! Start making everyone pay for prescriptions, even if in differing levels like dentistry. It fails to amaze me how someone with thyroid problems for instance, gets all medicine free no matter what it’s for…okay get your thyroid medicine free but not other medicine for unrelated conditions!

CayrolBaaaskin · 22/01/2022 20:34

Many people on this thread seem to think paying NI is some sort of fund that you get back as a pensioner. It isn’t. It’s just a tax. Pensions are benefits which are being paid for by today’s taxpayers. It’s likely given how expensive universal state pensions are that they won’t exist for many working age people.

So basically many of those taxpayers paying for the current pensioners pensions won’t get pensions themselves or will get them much later than those that they have paid for. That’s pretty unfair.

As for paying in to the system and not getting anything out - that’s how tax works. You get out in accordance with need and pay in in accordance with means.

Fr0thandBubble · 22/01/2022 20:36

@monfuseds

I pay well into 6 figures tax a year - why should I be paying for everyone else’s pension and not get one myself

you are paying 6 figs in just tax & you are worried about not getting your state pension?

Why shouldn’t I get it? People seem to think high earners get high pay from luck or something - I get it because I work ridiculous hours in a highly stressful job that I had to train for 3 years for after university. I barely get to see my children, I barely get to see my friends, I am never home before 10:30pm at night, I regularly work on weekends. Why the hell should I live this kind of life flogging myself to death only to fund other people who don’t make these sacrifices? Honestly the sense of entitlement some people have to other people’s hard-earned money blows my mind.
woodhill · 22/01/2022 20:37

I think it was originally set up that way and you do make contributions during your working life, that is how it is presented to you

AnneKipankitoo · 22/01/2022 20:38

No.
It costs more to means test .

RockingMyFiftiesNot · 22/01/2022 20:38

Pensioner’s didn’t even suffer a 80% furlough during lockdowns.
Not everyone who isn't a pensioner was furloughed.

monfuseds · 22/01/2022 20:39

@Fr0thandBubble I'm not saying you shouldn't get it I just would assume on your income you overpay into a private pension. I earn less than you but don't expect to get a state pension when I retire. DH is a higher earner so we are used to not getting benefits others get, it's the system.

loislovesstewie · 22/01/2022 20:40

If successive governments didn't have the brains to invest NI contributions so that the state pension scheme became self funding(in the manner of local and national government) it isn't the fault of us underlings who paid in. The fact that MP's didn't have the collective brain to sort out the issue in that way should not impact on my right to have the state pension I was promised at the age of 16.

RockingMyFiftiesNot · 22/01/2022 20:41

It’s just young workers subsidizing a generation that designed a system to benefit themselves

I've read this several times over and still can't make sense of it. Pensioners who have paid tax and national insurance for 35 + years are actually subsiding the NHS, education, local services etc that young workers haven't yet contributed much to.

ajandjjmum · 22/01/2022 20:42

@Tmwtgg

I'll have been working for 51 years by the time I get to state pension age. I have another 7 years to go to get my full stamp.

If you means test it, does that mean I'm going to get all of my stamps back? Why exactly should I pay NI towards a state pension if I can't claim it?

That doesn't make sense. You get the full pension after 35 years of working, obviously when you reach pension age. Unless I'm missing something?
monfuseds · 22/01/2022 20:45

Pensioners who have paid tax and national insurance for 35 + years are actually subsiding the NHS, education, local services etc that young workers haven't yet contributed much to.

I don't understand this point. Not every pensioner pays into the system & has worked all their life. Plenty of workers aren't even net contributors to the system.

RockingMyFiftiesNot · 22/01/2022 20:45

Young people who are looking at a state pension age of 68 (despite unlikely to live longer) will end up paying far more than 35 years.

You do realise that people have to be 66 to get their state pension right now? I won't get mine til 67 so it's not just 'young people' who are having to wait for their state pension

RockingMyFiftiesNot · 22/01/2022 20:49

@monfuseds

Pensioners who have paid tax and national insurance for 35 + years are actually subsiding the NHS, education, local services etc that young workers haven't yet contributed much to.

I don't understand this point. Not every pensioner pays into the system & has worked all their life. Plenty of workers aren't even net contributors to the system.

I said Pensioners who have paid tax and national insurance for 35 + years . I didn't say all pensioners have.
Fr0thandBubble · 22/01/2022 20:49

[quote monfuseds]@Fr0thandBubble I'm not saying you shouldn't get it I just would assume on your income you overpay into a private pension. I earn less than you but don't expect to get a state pension when I retire. DH is a higher earner so we are used to not getting benefits others get, it's the system. [/quote]
I don’t actually. I pay the bare minimum, because I am focusing on paying off my mortgage, saving for private school and paying for my son’s therapy (he has ASD).

The problem with “the system” is that when it too heavily penalises high earners (which in my opinion it does), those high earners will leave.

I am counting on having my state pension when I retire. I will have paid for it many, many times over by the time I retire, and if the system were changed so that I was no longer entitled to it, I would be on the first plane out to the Cayman Islands, Hong Kong or Dubai (and, yes, it would be very easy for me to work in any of those places).

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 22/01/2022 20:51

I have been paying into a pension since I was 25. I still will not be much above the poverty line when I retire if I don't have the state pension. Means testing will not just mean people bringing in over 50K+ won't get it, it will be anyone brining in over 15K+ or something. We will create a whole new host of social problems.

monfuseds · 22/01/2022 20:51

@RockingMyFiftiesNot but plenty of those pensioners won't be net contributors so how have you deduced the ones that have worked have subsidised education, the NHS etc for others?

monfuseds · 22/01/2022 20:55

@Fr0thandBubble my point is I would say it's unusual for someone on such a high salary to be reliant on the state pension. I don't really buy into the wealthy flight narrative but it's good you have options.
I also would not rely on the state pension depending on your age as I really can't see it existing in its current form in the next 20 years & the NHS even less.

Angrymum22 · 22/01/2022 20:55

It’s a very simplistic view. Most people with a private pension and earnings from investments pay income tax on their pension if it is over the minimum tax threshold. When I receive my state pension, for which I have contributed, I will pay 20% of it straight back to HMRC.
Any investments and savings will also be taxed so in effect I will be contributing to my own pension.

Blossomtoes · 22/01/2022 20:56

So basically many of those taxpayers paying for the current pensioners pensions won’t get pensions themselves or will get them much later than those that they have paid for. That’s pretty unfair.

It’s the way it is 🤷‍♀️ I was supposed to get my state pension at 60. I got it at 66. My parents got theirs at 60 and 65. And I’m still paying tax.

Mummyoflittledragon · 22/01/2022 20:56

So you’re proposing net earners should not receive a state pension. That would be terribly unfair!

Lolamento · 22/01/2022 20:56

I also see high earners leaving the U.K. It is impossible to save here specially if you live in London. So expensive and punitive taxes. They are not the ones that should be taxed to death. Why? Billionaires get away with living here and paying nothing. Time that people start seeing the difference between a high earner and rich people.

JanuaryBluehoo · 22/01/2022 20:57

Only I get that.

I didn't just mention million pound houses though.
I said porches, new Mercedes, other property paid out right, huge investments etc.... Massive pensions.

Ariela · 22/01/2022 20:58

If you're as pensioner, you get taxed on earnings /income above a certain amount anyway

RockingMyFiftiesNot · 22/01/2022 20:58

[quote monfuseds]@RockingMyFiftiesNot but plenty of those pensioners won't be net contributors so how have you deduced the ones that have worked have subsidised education, the NHS etc for others? [/quote]
I was responding the comment that It’s just young workers subsidizing a generation that designed a system to benefit themselve

Those who have worked for 35+'years HAVE contributed through tax and NI to services that younger people and their families receive. You can't argue that younger people have contributed as much, surely? I have no issue with that at all by the way but then take exception to It’s just young workers subsidizing a generation that designed a system to benefit themselves

Viviennemary · 22/01/2022 20:59

No. Not while other benefits are so high.