Means testing State Pension

[CuriousMariette]

Do you think the time has come for this to be introduced? I don’t think the current system is sustainable as many people are living too long. I know it’s not fair and would be political suicide but Pensioner’s didn’t even suffer a 80% furlough during lockdowns. I say this from a place of having “paid in” as people say for 30 years plus already and would likely not receive a State Pension in this scenario.

In Australia. Thanks. Couldn't see it happening in the UK. Better not give the government any more ideas to fleece people!

[quote godmum56]@Fr0thandBubblethan
"Honestly I think the issue is that we try far too hard to keep people alive for as long as possible in this country. I’d happily pay more tax to fund better education for children, better services for disabled children (being a parent of one, I know just how dire the state provision is), generally better provision for children, etc. But taxpayers spending hundreds of thousands eking out the age of people in their 80s and 90s, I’ve got no interest in."

go on then, who shall we kill and how shall we kill them? I have worked in the NHS and by and large, its my experience that the older population who are receiving a high level of care are given only treatments to keep them comfortable because that is what is best for them....or should we leave them in pain and fighting for breath?[/quote]
I’m not talking about killing anyone. If you’re old and you can afford your own healthcare, crack on. If you can’t, I don’t think the taxpayer should be paying to eke out every last year of life of someone in their 80s/90s. As I said before, I’d rather the money I pay in tax goes on provision for children. And these are choices we have to make, because we have the means of keeping people alive for a long time, at vast expense, but that needs to be paid for somehow, and there is a great many more people taking out of the pot than putting into it.

[quote echt]Got a link so I can check my facts? Because I’m pretty sure you’re wrong

www.usdaw.org.uk/Help-Advice/Pensions/Retired-Members/Health-and-Social-Care-Levy[/quote]
Thanks. So, as I said, the vast majority of pensioners won’t pay it because they don’t work. 🤷‍♀️

The levy is completely wrong in my opinion & regressive. It will be the poorer pensioners who have to work that are hit.

as well as the lower earners of working age.

@Viviennemary

In Australia. Thanks. Couldn't see it happening in the UK. Better not give the government any more ideas to fleece people!

Tell me about it!!! :o

When I see proposals such as this thread, it exercises me a little, living where it actually exists, and seeing what governments can and will do once the universal access is eroded.

@loislovesstewie

If successive governments didn't have the brains to invest NI contributions so that the state pension scheme became self funding(in the manner of local and national government) it isn't the fault of us underlings who paid in. The fact that MP's didn't have the collective brain to sort out the issue in that way should not impact on my right to have the state pension I was promised at the age of 16.

This.

@monfuseds

The levy is completely wrong in my opinion & regressive. It will be the poorer pensioners who have to work that are hit.

I agree to some extent. However pensioners with only the state pension have the option of stopping work and claiming pension credits. It’s young people on low incomes I feel it’s unfair to.

No way. I do think people should continue to pay national insurance though.

It’s young people on low incomes I feel it’s unfair to.

it's ridiculously unfair

@CuriousMariette

Do you think the time has come for this to be introduced? I don’t think the current system is sustainable as many people are living too long. I know it’s not fair and would be political suicide but Pensioner’s didn’t even suffer a 80% furlough during lockdowns. I say this from a place of having “paid in” as people say for 30 years plus already and would likely not receive a State Pension in this scenario.

Are you kidding me? My mum gets £600 a month on state pension and has worked all her life! She has to reuse teabags and ration the heating.... (Nope, apparently receives 3p too much in to receive Pension Credit!!!).

She worked for a financial institution all her life and lost her company pension when it collapsed.

Please stop implying that all pensioners are wealthy!!!!

@Lolamento

I also see high earners leaving the U.K. It is impossible to save here specially if you live in London. So expensive and punitive taxes. They are not the ones that should be taxed to death. Why? Billionaires get away with living here and paying nothing. Time that people start seeing the difference between a high earner and rich people.

Exactly. The narrative is always to hammer people on PAYE, who prop up the system. Rather than address the fact that people who own businesses are charged far lower tax rates on their income/ gains, even if they declare them accurately - which many do not! I really don't understand how so many people don't grasp the way the tax system is stacked against anybody who is an employee and keep demanding that the people who already pay the most tax by far - employees on higher than average incomes - pay even more, rather than addressing the real issue which is that dividends tax, capital gains tax etc are SO much lower %s than income tax and NI, with many more exemptions.

@BigYellowHat

No way. I’m not paying in for 30 plus years just so all the lazy cheapskates who can’t be bothered to work get my contributions. If I’ve paid in, I’m having it thanks very much. And before anyone accuses me of it, yes I’m a Tory voting Daily Mail reader.

How on earth can you vote Tory and sleep at night????

@Fr0thandBubble My Mother is 89. She had cancer treatment earlier this year but up til then she's been very fit and healthy. It's taken 6 months but now she's in remission.

She has been contributing tax to this country for 61 years, had a fine career, raised a family and did voluntary work until 2 years ago. Yet you are saying that her point of need she should have just be left in pain and untreated?

And that you seriously think your life is worth more than hers? She developed the software for one of 1st microchips, a technology that underlies every device around your house. What exactly have you contributed?

I think it would be just be a fairer idea to ask the 4.5 million self employed people to pay the same rates of national insurance as people who are employed? I also think that working retired people should pay national insurance.

God no! I've already had to work (and pay NI) an extra 7 years to get it.

@JanuaryBluehoo

Only I get that.

I didn't just mention million pound houses though.
I said porches, new Mercedes, other property paid out right, huge investments etc.... Massive pensions.

So somebody who owns a £1m house but has £0 private pension savings should get a state pension, but somebody who has put £1m into a private pension fund but rents their house should get one?

Can you really not see how impossible it is to set up a fair system to even assess all of these individual circumstances? Let alone administer it and it actually save money overall. It's a non-starter.

@SquidMonkey I agree with you.

@blubberyboo

Why should I work all my life and pay in for others to benefit. Besides someone could struggle for 38 years working and then have a few last years of decent savings and assets to find it makes them unentitled

Or just spend all of it so that they are then entitled! It's a totally unworkable idea.

[quote mellicauli]@Fr0thandBubble My Mother is 89. She had cancer treatment earlier this year but up til then she's been very fit and healthy. It's taken 6 months but now she's in remission.

She has been contributing tax to this country for 61 years, had a fine career, raised a family and did voluntary work until 2 years ago. Yet you are saying that her point of need she should have just be left in pain and untreated?

And that you seriously think your life is worth more than hers? She developed the software for one of 1st microchips, a technology that underlies every device around your house. What exactly have you contributed?

I think it would be just be a fairer idea to ask the 4.5 million self employed people to pay the same rates of national insurance as people who are employed? I also think that working retired people should pay national insurance.[/quote]
Glad to hear that, you are so right

I also think that working retired people should pay national insurance.

There would be outrage though as many people as demonstrated on this thread think they have paid their dues.

Don’t you think folk who’ve worked all their life and have a workplace pension deserve to have a state pension . Some folk , not disabled or il , have never worked a day in their life , workers deserve to have more than them , after all they’ve subsidised them all through the years . You are def unreasonable and have made me so angry you would even suggest this

[quote monfuseds]@Blossomtoes you are aware that the figure you quoted is a huge decline on past decades & well below replacement rate? Why do you think the average age of the population is 40? [/quote]
I don't think @Blossomtoes has even a grip of even the most basic economic principles given their bizarre posts.

@monfuseds

I also think that working retired people should pay national insurance.

There would be outrage though as many people as demonstrated on this thread think they have paid their dues.

Too right. I paid NI for 47 years, that’s enough.

Anything above State Pension is 'means-tested' eg Pension Credits. I say lets really start Means-Testing, not just randomly here and there.

Pensioner Winter Fuel Allowance, Means Test.
Any Pension-aged Benefit. Means Test.
Nothing automatically given because of Age. Means Test.

Any Child-related Benefits. Means Test
Cut off £35k - no entitlement to anything above that
CTS - Means Test. Max 10% Deduction from any Award.

Shall I go on? There's loads more.....

Echt honestly I agree with the PP. I don’t think it’s a disgusting scenario. I would much rather taxpayers’ money be spent on the young. The current system of keeping everyone alive as long as possible - often long after their mind and body is up to it - is not sustainable. In fact I’d go further than that and say it’s wrong.

Wow! Wait until you get to be 60+. While we're at it, why not cull the sickly and the unemployed as well? That must be a waste of money in your book too.