What makes you working class?

[Greenbluestar]

I noticed the thread on what makes you middle class. So how about what makes you working class? I’ll go first..

• achievement achieved through merit and seldom by privilege
• keen to work and hard working

Any more?

I hate the obsession with class in the UK.
In theory the definition relates to working in unskilled jobs. My parents were both in these roles and we were genuinely poor. I had a lovely secure childhood and wouldn’t want it changed. However I recall the stress of money for my parents

To me it's non home-owning, non further/ higher educated, manual workers earning less than the average household wage.

I don't think it is so clear cut any more. Probably since more people started going to university, which opened up professional jobs to people from wider backgrounds.

Plus conversely, in many parts of the country, even two low to medium professional salaries, eg up to around £50k pa, don't buy typical middle class housing without significant parental help or inheritence, or until much later in life. So you might have well paid professionals renting, while manual workers in cheaper areas buying their homes.

All my older male relatives were miners. Women tended to be SAHMs or did bits of low paid part time work like retail, hospitality, cleaning, although DM passed the 11+ and went to grammar school, then went to work in a bank, but she stopped working when she had me, as was the norm at the time. But my parents and many like them bought their own home.

We are definitely traditionally working class, but with many of what are usually deemed as middle class signifiers like we saved for things we wanted, rather than taking out credit, we went to the library and museums, were always given books. Education and cultural interests, history, visits to National Trust places etc were seen as important, but then I'm still the only member of my family who's been to university.

We didn't have foreign holidays, but when I go abroad now, I'd choose a cultural city break or a traditional, quiet authentic place over something like All Inclusive in Benidorm or Magaluf.

In these threads there always seem to be a lot of people saying 'I'm middle class and I'm not like working class people because I value education and quality over quantity, but in my experience a lot of the 'class markers' apply equally to all types of people of a variety of backgrounds.

Rent a flat above a shop.
Cut your hair and get a job.
Smoke some fags and play some pool.
Pretend you never went to school.

Some of these posts are so romanticised that they can only be written by the lower middle class.

My parents were teenagers when they had me and my brother. We lived in a flat above a shop. We couldn’t go on school trips (too expensive). We didn’t have a car, neither of my parents could afford lessons so didn’t have licences until they were in their thirties.
When my parents split up, my grandmothers had a fist fight in our living room.

Poverty is only cool in the hypothetical.

I’m higher educated but I’m still working class. I’m the only person in my wider family to go to university.

My children have all gone to university. Their cousins on my side have not.

@BaggaTDoubleTroubleDoubleG

See, I don’t identify with this and I definitely grew up working class (parents were a toolmaker and dinner lady). They bought their house but it wasn’t in a great area (of B’ham). Consequently, we never had much spare cash.

However, my parents always made an effort to expose us to arts, culture and education. We went to the theatre for special occasions. Visited castles, museums, galleries. Never had enough cash to holiday abroad, but we’d be in the library a lot, learning about the world. We couldn’t afford music lessons or sports that required much in the way of fees or equipment, so we swam and did athletics/track & field.

I was lucky that while they couldn’t give me money or privilege, they did install the value of education and they gave me good genes (intelligence-wise). I was able to put these to good use and these days I’m a long term ex-pat in a very lucrative industry in Switzerland. I own multiple properties, pensions and insurance policies so if things when tits up, I’d probably be ok, but I wouldn’t be living the same lifestyle as now and I certainly have zero family assets to fall back on.

I find these discussions fascinating but somehow unrelatable. I am from rural NI and class markers much different.
At work (Civil Service) there is a huge campaign on social mobility at the moment. Mostly it seems to be senior leaders (white middle aged men) being at pains to present their working class backgrounds. Little real discussion on what has changed since they were the first in their family to go to uni. Barriers are still there, if not greater.

People love to wilfully misunderstand on these threads - well I buy brioche and I am working class, I am house proud and an aristocrat.

Soaps
Women’s weekly magazines
Telly on all the time
Calling Asda ‘asdas’ and McDonald’s Maccies
Brand names
Same sex children dressed identically

Grew up with young parents, dad was a manual worker, mum did part-time admin. Lived on a council estate in a rented house, electric was on a meter and we had no central heating. Not much money but they both worked hard and loved us kids.
Never had a holiday over night, entitled to free school meals, clothes were 2nd hand, no car,
Every penny was budgeted for and we ate cheap food etc
I went to a grammar school on merit then Uni. First in our family to go to further education.
Supported myself and worked all through Uni.
When I was 12 though we moved off the state and bought a small house, mum went to nightclasses throughout my childhood and requalified to be a paralegal. She eventually went to nightclasses and got a degree in her 50s.
My circumstances and profession and area I live would make me MC in many people’s eyes but I deffo feel WC. Everything we have was earned and paid ourselves and it was a real slog at times.

Our kids though - deffo MC. They live in an owned house in a nice area, go to state school but we have nice hols, they have paid for hobbies, clothes when they need them, plenty of good food, lessons for music, swimming, to help with school work.
They’re lucky in many ways but I’m not sure they always realise that although we are careful to try and give them our time and love rather than toys or ‘things’.

I suppose for me, I'm the first person to go to university in my whole family, and eventually get a masters. Never had any help to buy our house etc.

My dad was a lorry driver and my mum worked in a factory. We were not poor and went on holidays abroad. Our house was very basic and messy. A typical 'working class' village in the midlands. We never ate foreign foods like pasta... or rice. Mum and dad used to argue lots about money, but always seemed to make it work for the three of us.

Calling the toilet “the bog”

I was brought up working class. Financially I’m now middle class but I still feel very much working class and always will

Having a strong sense of humour - often very dark or twisted humour to cope through bad times.
Being able to sympathise with other people without first judging whether or not they are worthy of your sympathy.
Being able to understand other people's problems and concerns even if they are about issues you have never encountered in your world.
A live-and-let live approach.
Enjoying your life as much as you can instead of worrying about other people who don't live their life the way you think they should.

I would also say that I’m ever even thought of what ‘class’ I was before I came to England as a young adult! You lot are obsess with it. At home I ever thought of myself as WC or MC,
We don’t really have ‘posh’ people just some people have more money than others.
Most of the friends I had growing up where from our estate or my family and cousins etc so I’m ever felt like I was missing out on anything as our circumstances where all very similar.
I didn’t have friends with a lot of money, though some did have houses they owned.

I don't believe your family circumstances necessarily mean you're tied to that class because of upward/ downward mobility.
It's your current circumstances. So if you are from a working class family but have a degree and own your own home you have become middle class.
The glaring exception to this is when you are in working class circumstances but are expecting a large inheritance from middle class parents.

@FindingMeno

I don't believe your family circumstances necessarily mean you're tied to that class because of upward/ downward mobility. It's your current circumstances. So if you are from a working class family but have a degree and own your own home you have become middle class. The glaring exception to this is when you are in working class circumstances but are expecting a large inheritance from middle class parents.

I 100% agree!

@FindingMeno

To me it's non home-owning, non further/ higher educated, manual workers earning less than the average household wage.

I think it’s the complete opposite, barring the higher education. I think the WC are much more likely to own their homes and earn at least, if not more than, the average wage. Many manual workers earn significantly more than the average office job.

I think we now have a very diverse working class with an overlap with an underclass that has risen in post industrial times.

As traditional industries decline the working class are more likely to be involved in the gig economy or the service sector. I think there is a greater sense of community amongst lower classes but with a tendency to be socially conservative. Middle classes can be mor e aspirational in sense but tend to have a competitive attitude professionally and socially.

I think there is a perception difference of education between the working and middle classes with middle classes valuing education possibly more (especially higher edication). The focus of the working class.is getting decent employment at an early age with a greater emphasis on vocational skills.

@Isaw3ships

Yes, I feel the same. Well, sort-of, since the class system doesn’t exist in the same way here (99% of Switzerland is awash with cash).

But when I come home I feel WC. I stay at my parent’s semi in Brum. I feel more at ease with my old school friends, most of whom never went to university, than I do with my MC uni friendship group. The latter is always more try-hard and competitive (and whoever said brands are the preserve of the WC is clearly mistaken - the M classes might not do logos and conspicuous markers as much but they are certainly as susceptible to brand marketeers as the next person).

I am in Scotland and, as previous poster stated, it’s looked at differently here and rarely talked about .

I can’t help thinking that one of the barriers to social mobility is this endless obsession with class labels. Who actually cares what ‘class’ a person is ? If we are still talking about it on MN, then these class attitudes will prevail.

Accents as well. The working class tend to keep a regional accent as a mark of identity but with middle class families often being more mobile the accent diminishes through tim e and genetations.

The middle clas.people.I talk to tend to have weak or non existent accents.

Oh and tattoos.....working class going people tend to go for body art work (look at premiership footballers) while mc going people are more conservative on this front.

It’s funny how MC ‘concerns’ can suddenly bother you because if the people you know. Lots of DCs friends are filtering off to private schools for secondary and although we’re both MC amd had never even thought of private schools we starting thinking. Should we?? Are we wrong to discount them??
Then we gave our heads a good wobble and realised our kids are already privileged beyond measure compare to many in the U.K. and their state schools are fine.

I am in my 30s but my father was called out of the mine he worked in to attend my birth. My mother worked in care. Both left school with no qualifications, both lived in tiny 2/3 bed terraced homes with over 10 people. Our home has always been immaculate. My favourite foods are working class -corned beef pie, apple and blackberry pie etc.

My parents always read the news, took me to the theatre, believed in lifelong learning and developing skills throughout life, fought for justice by using their trade unions.

I have also been the first of my family to go to uni, and so was my dh. Through a paid internship I accessed a high paid job and I wouldn’t say my children are working class, but because these are our families route, we have a certain belief system and hopefully my children will always be members of a trade union.

My working class parents, growing up on a council estate, the school I went to.

My parents did OK money-wise. We weren't rich but money wasn't a worry and we had lots of treat and nice things. My parents were supportive, encouraging of education, extracurricular activities and cultural experiences, but I've seen the effects of parents who weren't on my cohort (those effects are visible today via SM) and were very anti authority of any kind and learning was seen as a negative, almost a betrayal.

I really do t think the class system can apply now.

Yes we can see what used to be the upper class, those with so much generational wealth they don’t have to work.

But the lines have blurred so much (thankfully) between middle class and working class.

People often use working class as an insult. Appalling snobbery.

Then you have the under class - don’t work, survive on benefits.

Take the class test in the bbc for a bit of fun - much more relevant to today’s society. And it will show you how subtle it all can be