To think that if you have an infectious disease, you should stay home?

[Notcontent]

So apparently the need to isolate if you have COVID will end in March. To me that seems to be sending an odd message… I am all for COVID restrictions being lifted - but surely if someone knows they have a virus, they should just stay at home??

I always thought it was pretty selfish for people with the flu or a stomach virus etc to just go out and spread their virus on public transport, to colleagues at work, etc.

I thought that a positive to come out of COVID might be that people will be more mindful about not spreading illness but it seems the message being given is that it’s fine to expose others!

The reason UK kids have a government flu vaccine programme is to stop spread among the older folk who are far more likely to end up in hospital.
I read about a study (done in Eton I think (close contacts, controlled environment!) which showed just how much flu was circulating among the teens. Much showing little to no symptoms.

@Ilikewinter

Maybe its time to rethink phoning in work sick. Yes I and many of my colleagues have been in work full of cold and coughing everywhere, we dose ourselves up on cold medication and crack on. Inevitably then everyone else catches the cold and no one thanks the first person for passing it round. Ive gone into work through feeling guilty of taking time off, in future if I had covid or felt truly ill I would probably take a couple of days off now.

I completely agree with you. I hope it continues to be acceptable for people who have symptoms of coughing and sneezing everywhere to work from home, if they can. I worked from home for a while before getting a job in an office a few years ago. I was always baffled by the fact that people would still come in, cough and sneeze throughout the day, when they could’ve worked from home. Almost everyone would then up catching it.

Well something has to change.

I tested positive last week and had a week off work - I’ve not had a single symptom.
My eldest then tested positive and after feeling unwell for 2 days made a full recovery and still had to miss a further 3 days of school. Now my youngest has it…. He’s fine, again not a single symptom but he is now going to miss a minimum of 3 days of school and I am off work again to look after him. That’s not sustainable in any way.

To live with covid is to stop asymptomatic testing, stop enforced isolation for a positive test if you feel ok and treat it like anything else where if you feel well enough to work you work and vice versa.

And I cannot work from home like millions of others by the way, I’m a primary school TA. I’m not sure what the % is of people that can easily and effectively work from home but I suspect it’s not as high as you might imagine!

@hugr

If I was back at work, I would have had to take the 3.5 weeks off to look after my son unpaid.

But you weren't back at work. And you could take annual leave etc. That is part and parcel of having children. And you didn't answer my question.

I think where people can wfh even if it is mildly inconvenient for their organisation then they should be strongly encouraged to do so on the days when they aren't necessarily sick but may be going down with a virus.

This is about changing management attitude. Not insisting that people drag themselves in on the days when wfh and sniffing/running to the toilet wouldbe better for everyone.

@TheMoth

I thought flu, proper flu was v different to a cold. I've had plenty of proper horrible colds over the years, but think I've only had flu about 4 or 5 times over my life. I remember those times, because I could barely get out of bed and it took months to get properly right. Bar covid, think it's 5 years since my last flu. And by 'mild', don't they just mean 'not severe enough to go to hospital '?

Whereas I get kids who've been off school for 2 days, bounce back in and tell me they've been off with flu.

But we’re all just self diagnosing all the time aren’t we?

I assume that when I was ill with extreme tiredness, body aches, fever etc pre-Covid that I had the flu. It probably was but it could have been lots of things and I’ll never know.

You can be completely asymptotic from the flu. Was my husband an asymptomatic carrier of the flu when I had what I decided to call the flu? Should he have left the house or not?

And we all have colds to varying degrees. I remember going to a doctors appointment whilst heavily pregnant with a heavy cold and the doctor saying “you appear to have the flu”. Was she just talking nonsense - because frankly I was still able to function close to normally even if I felt a bit rubbish..? Or maybe I did have the flu but wasn’t suffering too much perhaps because I was vaccinated? How the hell are any of us supposed to know?

The cold is a virus, and for most people, Covid now seems to appear as a cold. Did you go to work with a cold?

That’s an interesting question.

It's a pretty obvious question, I'd have thought. As Covid becomes more of an endemic thing, and assuming the symptoms continue to be pretty much identical to those of the common cold in the vast majority of people, the comparison with colds is fairly logical. If everyone with a cold stayed at home (in Covid or non-Covid times), the country would grind to a halt. If every child with a cold were kept iff school, a ridiculous number of parents would be off work constantly.

Presumably we were not infectious after the first few days

That's why I think a general standard of 48 hours or after temperature has subsided would be good.

If you're running a temperature, chances are you'll feel both rough and sleepy, and taking the time to get through that first bit is good both for you and for all your colleagues as you reduce the length of time you're exposing them to germs (can't do anything about pre-symptomatic phase, but can stop contact during the peak shedding of the first couple of days of symptoms)

But that does depend on their being better sick leave policies in the workplace.

[quote AllThingsServeTheBeam]@hugr people can't just take time off for a cold. Do you honestly want people to lose their jobs? Or go without pay?![/quote]
Emergency parental leave is also without pay, and many workplaces do not allow annual leave to be used in this way.

In any case, it could be your immunocompromised colleague, or their spouse undergoing treatment for cancer.

Do you think it's fair to subject them or others to potentially becoming seriously unwell and having to miss weeks off work so that you don't have to call in sick for 2-4 days?

@hugr I am immunocompromised and into work with a cold. I can't afford not to.

When my DP worked at a warehouse he would have been sacked for having loads of time off with colds. He gets them all the time. You were allowed 2 absences in 6 months, anything over that you had an investigation. Then a warning. Then you wouldn't be eligible for the shitty bonus and then it was goodbye. So no, it's not fair, but it can't be avoided. Maybe in your world.

And yes I do think that if you are unwell you should take time off work. I think employers should have to pay SSP at least for all the time someone takes off and should only be able to dismiss someone for sickness absence in extreme circumstances.

No. You are not being unreasonable. People who spread all kinds of germs around are massively antisocial.

People who are at higher risks from infection are people all around us, they are us. Anyone who has shared a “fight cancer” meme on social media could do well to think hard about whether they are making life harder for people with cancer and other reasons for needing to be careful.

You haven't answered my question...

I would add that our country ought to sort out sick pay so it covers everyone though. At the moment loads of people aren’t covered by basic SSP.

@hugr

You haven't answered my question...

Yes I did

'So no, it's not fair, but it can't be avoided.'

@hugr

And yes I do think that if you are unwell you should take time off work. I think employers should have to pay SSP at least for all the time someone takes off and should only be able to dismiss someone for sickness absence in extreme circumstances.

Right. But that doesn't happen. So until that time, people will continue to go into work with colds.

It's common sense. If you have flu you do not legally have to isolate. If you feel ill you stay home until your better. You don't legally idolate with chickenpox either but common sense is to stay home and avoid others. This is the same.

Just don't go to a workplace where you can spread a cold to others. If you don't get paid or lose your job that's an issue with your workplace not your colleagues. It's not fair but it can't be avoided.

@hugr

Just don't go to a workplace where you can spread a cold to others. If you don't get paid or lose your job that's an issue with your workplace not your colleagues. It's not fair but it can't be avoided.

Right ok then. That's going to happen isn't it haha. Sorry Mr bank manager infant pay the mortgage this month, but here's my bosses email, can you take it up with him please?

Don't be silly

I can't not infant

Covid really has skewed some people’s perception of risk. Or maybe those people who have always been very risk adverse now feel more able to say what they’ve always thought.

The idea that someone should isolate with a cold or other mild symptoms is ridiculous. Exposure to these is part of humans living in a normal society. I may as well argue that every car should be taken off the road today to reduce my risk of being run over.

Risk is an inherent part of life, and the trade off between potentially spreading a mild illness and people cowering in their houses with a sniffle is a no-brainer to me.

@HerculesMulligann

Covid really has skewed some people’s perception of risk. Or maybe those people who have always been very risk adverse now feel more able to say what they’ve always thought.

The idea that someone should isolate with a cold or other mild symptoms is ridiculous. Exposure to these is part of humans living in a normal society. I may as well argue that every car should be taken off the road today to reduce my risk of being run over.

Risk is an inherent part of life, and the trade off between potentially spreading a mild illness and people cowering in their houses with a sniffle is a no-brainer to me.

This. I can't believe some of the posters on here. Just lose your job! It's your employers fault! Madness 🤣

Isolation is not leaving the house.

If I had a bad cold I might not go into work while feeling rough but would probably still do the school run, pop to the supermarket/chemist.

@hugr

Just don't go to a workplace where you can spread a cold to others. If you don't get paid or lose your job that's an issue with your workplace not your colleagues. It's not fair but it can't be avoided.

Right so are you going to pay my mortgage until my workplace (and all the others) change to your policy? Thanks!