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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Benefit issue

55 replies

Humbled3 · 18/01/2022 01:12

Am I being unreasonable to offer to pay back all the money (£9000) that I was paid for wrongly claiming for UC? Was barely breaking even with my rental property, didn't realize I should have declared it as part of income, regardless. Am I right to feel scared? Just got a job after losing two in a short space of time due to death in the family and kids feeling suicidal. What do I say to make dwp not prosecute. I feel sick to my stomach and I can feal my chronic illness flaring up. Please advise what to do.

OP posts:
Freecuthbert · 18/01/2022 02:37

Sorry, should have said equity minus 10% for selling costs plus any savings or other capital you may have elsewhere

Freecuthbert · 18/01/2022 02:40

@Humbled3

Bebarkered, thanks. I had a phone interview already. When I filled out the form I dont recall seeing anything about rental income. Unsure whether they asked about the properties.
Probably wasn't on the form because as I and another PP said rental income is not counted as income for UC purposes.
Karenetta · 18/01/2022 02:45

Yes it's the capital that's the issue. There should have been a question on the claim form about owning property you don't live in.

If you go into your claim can you check your details and does it say there if you've told them about your other house?

Freecuthbert · 18/01/2022 02:48

I am on UC to top up income. I just logged on and checked what capital I had declared, it took a few seconds. You should be able to check.

Suzi888 · 18/01/2022 02:54

Jesus Christ. The advice on this thread is utterly ridiculous and wrong!

Do not get a solicitor - waste of time and money. The DWP will just write to the solicitor and not you, this will cost you money. Pointless.
How does your tenant pay you? Didn't UC staff see the credits on your bank statements? But anyway…

Ask for the overpayment to be put on hold and a mandatory reconsideration to be done taking into account the rental income from the second property. I am presuming you’ve declared this to HMRC…if not then you need to. Just google it. Rental income is the rent you get from your tenants. This includes any payments for:

the use of furniture
charges for additional services you provide such as:
cleaning of communal areas
hot water
heating
repairs to the property
Paying tax on profit from renting out your property
You must pay tax on any profit you make from renting out property. How much you pay depends on:

how much profit you make
your personal circumstances
Your profit is the amount left once you’ve added together your rental income and taken away the expenses or allowances you can claim.

State your mental health /etc not being in the right frame of mind. Go to CAB and they’ll assist you. Do not panic, there is no need. They will not prosecute. Worst case scenario you’ll need to make an arrangement to pay UC back- offer an amount you can afford. Don’t pay £9k in one go.

I’ll not be back to the thread as the level of crazy here is truly outstanding. 🙄
Good luck OP.

Thoosa · 18/01/2022 03:01

@Suzi888 I think PPs in the know have already clarified that it’s the asset (capital) that matters, not the rental income at all. So your advice is wrong too,

Karenetta · 18/01/2022 03:07

CAB can't advise on fraud/liability/interview under caution etc. CAB deals with civil law. A solicitor definitely can and will give advice without having all correspondence sent to them. Rental income isn't the issue, owning a capital asset is. OP again good luck. You're clearly not a criminal mastermind (criminal masterminds tend not to have assets sat around clearly in their names) or an evil oligarch (Bezos isn't claiming universal credit) and a decent solicitor should be able to give you some good advice.

Freecuthbert · 18/01/2022 03:14

I double checked and found this on government website pdf document about unearned income and universal credit.

Benefit issue
Freecuthbert · 18/01/2022 03:21

I have found though that work coaches/general staff in the job centre are pretty clueless about all the rules. I wanted to sort out driving lessons and getting a cheap second hand car (which will increase my earning potential and hopefully get off UC in future...) out of a payout I am due to receive, and the job centre can't even tell me if this is capital deprivation! They have suggested to me I might be penalised, there is a chance my UC will be stopped etc. Luckily it's not them who makes those kinds of decisions but a dedicated team elsewhere.

jimmyreckon · 18/01/2022 08:50

I echo getting legal advice.

Original poster
Humbled3 · 18/01/2022 10:52

Thanks everyone, for your advice.
@Freecuthbert, sorry I'm a but dyslexic, could you explain the pdf please? Does this mean this mean I should have declared the rental income or that it doesn't count? Thanks.

OP posts:
Loveisthere · 18/01/2022 11:27

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RandomLondoner · 18/01/2022 11:54

You are asked about any extra income on the UC form which it appears you did not declare.

I think you are misunderstanding the issue. The problem is not that she had lots of rental income, she says she was barely breaking even, so there was no income after expenses, which (in any sane calculation) should include mortgage payments.

It sounds like the issue is that she may not have been eligible for UC at all, because of her capital, so she may have to repay the UC she received.

The one time I claimed benefits, 30 years ago, I had 10K in shares, but these were disregarded for income support purposes as they were unlisted shares and there was no easy way to sell them. Having done a quick google, apparently under UC you can get a temporary disregard of your buy-to-let properties if you put them on the market to sell. Not sure that that will help OP with her retrospective problem.

Freecuthbert · 18/01/2022 12:47

@Humbled3

Thanks everyone, for your advice. *@Freecuthbert*, sorry I'm a but dyslexic, could you explain the pdf please? Does this mean this mean I should have declared the rental income or that it doesn't count? Thanks.
Rental income doesn't count under UC, the problem is how much capital you have and whether you were entitled to UC in the first place. As it is quite likely you have capital in excess of 16k by owning a second property. The property you live in doesn't count towards capital, but the second property that you rent out does. So depends on your equity.
Original poster
Humbled3 · 19/01/2022 01:31

Thanks everyone. @suzi888, thanks too.
@freecuthbert, what if the equity is less than 16k? How can anyone tell without putting it on the market?

OP posts:
Original poster
Humbled3 · 19/01/2022 23:11

@I lovesooty, thanks. No, I have not been told.please

OP posts:
NeverDropYourMooncup · 19/01/2022 23:24

Wasn't the question asking for details of any other income including from property/any assets including property a bit of a clue that they wanted to know about the additional income/the ownership of a property?

Legal representation might help you a bit and will tell the court all the stresses you've been under - just as they would for anybody they represent - but fundamentally, you knowingly gave false information and claimed a benefit fraudulently. It's crap for you that you've been caught, but the best option is to get a solicitor and hope for the best (ie, fine, repayment, criminal record).

You aren't going to be able to make this go away.

christingle2 · 19/01/2022 23:32

Hey, more information would be great. Why exactly do you have to repay the money? What did they say in the letter?

With universal credit, regardless of who’s error it was that led to the overpayment, you would have to pay it back. So you’re not being unreasonable to offer to pay it back

You can also request for the decision to be looked into, mandatory reconsideration, if you think it’s incorrect or want them to explain better to you

I don’t know the specifics but you shouldn’t necessarily feel scared of prosecution. Make sure you inform them of your bereavements and kids feeling suicidal. It doesn’t justify not informing them of your income/capital, but it may possibly offer a bit of mitigation as to why you were late reporting it. Although ultimately it’s your responsibility to make sure your claim is accurate

You can seek legal advice from citizens advice perhaps?

Isausernameavailable · 19/01/2022 23:37

Why claim uc instead of selling rental property and living off the money?

christingle2 · 19/01/2022 23:42

www.uceplus.co.uk/disregarded-capital

www.entitledto.co.uk/help/Own-other-property

You can find more info about capital here.

TheHoptimist · 19/01/2022 23:43

Did you pay income tax on it?

emberplum · 19/01/2022 23:47

@Isausernameavailable

Why claim uc instead of selling rental property and living off the money?
I imagine, when you are in desperate need of money to live off, it's quicker to claim UC than to sell a house. Especially with sitting tenants.
Goonergirl14 · 19/01/2022 23:55

You can ask to see all information held on your claim (I am sure it is called right of access), this way you can see all interaction on your claim and if you were misinformed in any way. I am a civil servant, don't want to say anymore but I do have knowledge of the UC system, overpayment are very common, even very large ones. Compliance and fraud are different I would double check who it is that contacted you.

christingle2 · 20/01/2022 00:10

@Goonergirl14 I have a similar background, with regard to staff misinformation, there’s nothing in law to stop an overpayment/force an underpayment due to misinformation so doubt her history notes would provide much help. A DM stated in a MR that there’s various sources to help claim UC eg online entitlement calculators, so essentially said claimants should be able to make an informed decision when opening a claim and accepting their responsibility to accurately report their circumstances etc

Suzi888 · 20/01/2022 00:15

@Thoosa I doubt it. I processed benefit for 15 years. Rental income is 100% taken into account unless you own the property and don’t rent it out. Even then chuck it on the market and it’s disregarded for 26 weeks….
This is not a fraud investigation, it’s compliance. 🙄